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  not gonna hurt...

I should not be offended by a mere National Anthem... It not hurt to stand up and show respect to the country God chosen me to be born and grew up...

 2017/9/28 6:03
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 655
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

I love my country (Canada). I absolutely will stand during the national anthem. "God keep our land glorious and free..."


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Nigel Holland

 2017/9/28 20:36Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re:

I am an Indian living in US. I was very patriotic before I was born again. Now I have no patriotic feel about any nation. I am really thankful to USA for the religious freedom that I enjoy here. But nothing more.

Regarding standing up for national anthem, I will stand up if there are people around me. I do not want to offend people using my freedom in Christ. If my freedom in Christ offends someone then I am not using it right.


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Sreeram

 2017/9/28 20:44Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re:

Romans 13:7 - Pay everyone what you owe him: taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, RESPECT TO WHOM RESPECT IS DUE, honor to whom honor is due.

If people around you expect you to Respect the national anthem then pay the respect. I believe not paying the respect in the name of freedom in Christ is a Sin as well according to Romans 13:7.


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Sreeram

 2017/9/29 10:50Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greeting Sree

by Sree on 2017/9/29 7:50:00

Romans 13:7 - Pay everyone what you owe him: taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, RESPECT TO WHOM RESPECT IS DUE, honor to whom honor is due.

If people around you expect you to Respect the national anthem then pay the respect. I believe not paying the respect in the name of freedom in Christ is a Sin as well according to Romans 13:7.

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Just a quick question I have if I may:) Would it be a sin then if say an official called everyone together and said when the music is played everyone come together and bow down to worship? Would it be sin for someone not to do that? I suppose everyone who was doing it would expect us to do so also? I realize you will probably think well no one is asking us to bow down and worship the flag...perhaps that is true, but then again some come dangerously close to that if not out right do...

Before you think I have answered the question with my questions let me say that is not the case. I am just more curious to your or anyone else reasoning for pronouncing it a sin not to stand.

I realize you shared scripture but I am not sure that we are compelled to stand for the anthem the way you are compelled to pay taxes...Do you think we are?

Also as I wonder and I continue thinking of this topic, wasn't caesar of Rome to be considered as GOD and for a lot of Romans they believed he was but I know GOD would not want me to pay homage to caeser in such a way? Perhaps there is no correlation there but something to consider before HIM I think. (The last thoughts are my own thoughts and have nothing to do with what you shared. Please do not think I am implying you were suggesting anything other than what you shared,)

As for my answer to the original post...Honestly I have not been to any event in recent memory or even not so recent memory where the national anthem is played so this question has not come up for me at all. I really do not foresee it coming up in the future so I think my best answer would be not to deal in "what if" questions and say if I found myself in the situation where I had to decide to stand or remain seated I would pray in that moment and ask GOD what HE would have me do. I am learning if I am truly going to surrender all, that means every moment of my day and every choice I make. Even if I should stand or sit for me should be put to prayer first then upon HIS leading I would know exactly what I should do :)

I want to add a disclaimer to my post. I have prayed about writing it however I know that attitudes can always be read into this kind of communication. I have done it myself and am attempting to learn not to :) Anyway, I would like to say the above questions are asked sincerely with no preconceived right or wrong answer. Merely wondering how you or anyone else thinks about this.

And if I may ask the forum at large, did anyone else pray and ask GOD how he would want them to conduct themselves in such a situation? I know we all pray before we post but I am more wondering if anyone prayed specifically "LORD what should I do, stand or sit when the national anthem is played?" Remember no right or wrong answers just wondering.

I want to make it clear I have no real thoughts either way if a person should stand or sit. As I said I have not really considered this because it has not come up for me at all.

God Bless
mj

ps one side note here. I thought was interesting when my son was watching the game and all those players were kneeling, and locking arms...they looked like they were praying. If some of them were would that change our view of it I wonder?

 2017/9/29 12:25Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1267
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Dear Sister,

Your line of questioning and the logic of it is lost on me.... as it seems to miss the very context of Romans 13 as a whole, which is to submit to every earthy governmental ordinance in order to honor God Himself. Of course that would preclude worshiping an idol of any kind, tho short of that there isn’t really any “wiggle room” that I can find.

Also you make a comparison between saluting a national flag (for which many have given their lives for freedoms sake) and bowing for or worshipping music.... that doesn’t appear to be an equitable analogy as I don’t know of any song for which millions have willingly died to preserve access to, so the two aren’t really comparable (for me).

As far as it being a sin to not stand,... well if we know to do a thing and don’t then that is a sin, no?

Personally I find brother Sree’s position to be consistent with my understanding of not only scripture but more importantly the Spirit of the letter-

Blessings sweet sister :)


_________________
Fletcher

 2017/9/29 13:52Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings JFW

Thanks for the reply. I was not necessarily making a comparison to anything more like one line of thinking took me on to the next :) I think Ginnyrose calls it a rabbit hole!

I do pray for my leaders and I do pay taxes because the law commands that I do and since it does not interfere with my walk with JESUS to do so, I do it. However, there is no law that compels me to stand for the anthem so I suppose that is where i was thinking there was 'wiggle room'(as you put it) I have no issue with Sree thoughts and heart on the matter either, except the part where he calls it sin not to stand?? I am Praying about that one? I know Romans 13 but as i said there is no governmental ordinance that says I must stand so not sure how I would be sinning if GOD lead me to sit? GOD says to pay taxes because that is the law of the land, in that case there is a governmental ordinance that I do so. right? is there a law or ordinance that says I have to stand for the anthem? that is where I want to be praying further on this one. I just want to be sure that all that I do brings HONOR and GLORY to HIM as I know you all do as well.

I know my other post was a bit rambling. I give you credit for wading through. Could I ask you do you pray and ask JESUS if you should sit or stand for the anthem? you so totally do not have to answer I am just curious. Recently I have been seeing how much of my daily living happens out of my own leading and decision making and not in submitting unto HIM. I do so many things without ever seeking HIM and lately I am seeing if I am sold out for JESUS is that truly the right and heart for me to have??(Sorry that went off topic just a tad. Alas another rabbit hole I suspect)

Anyway did you think it looked like some of the players might have been praying while they were kneeling? Would it matter if they were? My son said, sad truth is some might actually not kneel if they believed someone thought it looked like they were praying instead of protesting. I suppose he is right, he does watch football and I do not. I do like baseball from time to time though :)

Thanks again for the response. I am learning a lot through all this. GOD is so good HE teaches us everyday even in the little things :)

GOD bless
mj

 2017/9/29 14:19Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

I do have one concern in all this and it flickered in me from a headline I read today where a high school football team has instructed its players that they will be dismissed from the team if they kneel during the national anthem.

Seems to me dangerously close to a loyalty test the likes of which should make Christians check-up on running headlong into this worldly fight. Before we pick the side of non-kneelers vs. kneelers, let's make sure the ramifications of our decision is well thought through. Seems to me that maybe folks aren't taking things to their logical, plausible ends.

Other than this, my biggest gripe has been the muddying of sports and politics. I hate politics. I like football. Politics and media are ruining football. I don't personally care who kneels, stands, sings, or does an Icky Shuffle to the Star-Spangled Banner. If freedom of speech doesn't mean people have a right to be wrong, then it doesn't mean much.


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Tim

 2017/9/29 15:07Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Other than this, my biggest gripe has been the muddying of sports and politics. I hate politics. I like football. Politics and media are ruining football. I don't personally care who kneels, stands, sings, or does an Icky Shuffle to the Star-Spangled Banner. If freedom of speech doesn't mean people have a right to be wrong, then it doesn't mean much.

_______________

Greetings

That is how my son feels as well. He sees all the kneel or don't kneel issue as a huge distraction to the game. He would just like to watch football.

Actually you comment got me thinking further too. What if this had an opposite effect, what if in the not so distant future we found ourselves being forced to stand, to pledge, to pray, to bow down?? Things are happening at an ever increasing rapid pace it seems. If I have the freedom to stand, surely the person next to me has the freedom to sit??
Then again according to my son the NFL rules say the 'players' are to stand so maybe this is just a workplace issue thing ;) More rabbit holes I suspect.

Thanks for letting me chime in.

GOD bless
mj

 2017/9/29 15:22Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1267
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Sister MJ and Brother Tim,

Yes and Amen to that point!
And it is a concern and does give me pause, that this or any issue like this is walking a razor wire culturally as well as legally and may very well come back to bite us at a future date in a different climate.demanding conformity to a state sponsored code of conduct (outside of established legal context) seems to quickly digress into fascism in one form or another. Which is to say we shouldn’t try to legislate morality, as it will only adddres the byproduct and not the primary issue, which is the heart.

Having said that, my understanding (limited) says that most everything either honors or dishonors God and with that we are commanded in scripture to “do all that you do as unto the Lord” so as sister MJ suggests, we should pray and seek the Lord in all things following after the Spirit of the letter and not the letter of the law.
So to answer your question dear sister,... Yes I pray about it personally and while it may appear that some are praying, I’m not sure that would change it objectively but certainly would subjectively.
For me, the whole “movement” is misguided as it applies blame elsewhere with no personal responsibility being shouldered by those whom are participating in what the core issue (socially) is- which in my opinion is absent fathers in over 70% of the homes that are the victims of police brutality. If those protesters where actually concerned about the problems they claim to be then IMO it would be far more effective to address the problem and not just the symptoms and that can only be addressed with the gospel of Jesus Christ :)


_________________
Fletcher

 2017/9/29 16:04Profile





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