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deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1802
Hemel Hempstead

 False Conversions:Dealing with People who formallly professed Faith

I know this is hard, yesterday I was witnessing in Luton and came across a man who was formally a catholic, I have come across people who have gone to liberal churches like Soul Survivor and turned Atheist.

These people are a nightmare to deal with. It is hard because the little Christian teaching they do know is normally wrong.

We also ran into a so called Gay Christian who went to an Anglican Church who ran a Sunday School who could not quote a verse of scripture, did not know any aspects of what Justification is, did not even know what John 3: 16 was. Yet professed to be a Christian and did not have a clue what the bible actually said. To me this person and the man that I have talked to are the epidemic that is the American Church where people are told Jesus loves them and brought into church through maybe the rap music or worldly methods so prevalent in the church.

There was one group in the town. I literally had to go up to them and say you are using worldly methods such as a concert where they hear about Jesus maybe after a pep talk on Star Wars or some other subject, then they maybe connect with Jesus as it is commonly called and then I meet them on the street 3 years later when they have become Atheist.

This Pandemic of False Christianity is furthered by the fact of the Ecumenical movement and those that have been to the Catholic Church or Anglican Church and think this is Christianity or Hillsong.

It is also embarrassing that when you do run into Christians in the UK that they can barely give a simple understanding of what is the gospel or why are they different from say the Jehovahs witnesses or others.

Matt 7
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

It is amazing that many Christians know Judge not lest you be judged but so do atheists.Some atheists have had more knowledge of Scripture than most Christians. I have even spoken to some Muslims who have more knowledge of the Bible than most Christians.

The problem is that most churches because they have no foundation in doctrine they are producing

Greetings from Jude

(James 1:1-1)

1Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: 2Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

God's Judgment on the Ungodly

(Genesis 4:1-7; Romans 2:1-16)

3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. 9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. 10But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. 11Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 12These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 16These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

A Call to Persevere

(Hebrews 10:19-39)

17But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. 20But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Doxology

(Romans 11:33-36; Romans 16:25-27)

24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

1 Timothy 6

Fight the Good Fight

11But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 12Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses. 13I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.


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Dominic Shiells

 2017/9/24 15:14Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1115
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re: False Conversions:Dealing with People who formallly professed Faith

I have spoken with many many people who have left the faith for one reason or another. Most were never born of God to begin with, their departure in keeping with Matt 13 reveals their heart was never able to receive the seed of God's word and in due course departed physically from the Church because spiritually they were never born into it.
For these, I pray, I come back to them and offer them the gospel. So many of them as Paul Washer has often spoken were gospel starved, what they received was something other than reconciliation with God and a surrendered life whereby Christ now lives through them. No, these had another kind of gospel which is no gospel.
Others were the kind that cut deals with God; you know, God get my wife back and I'll serve you like I should, heal me and I'll serve you, bail me out of this mess and I'll give you my life. Even when God's kindness was given and deliverance was had they had no earnest desire for God's forgiveness and reconciliation with him, they knew God was merciful and hoped God would bail them out...they didn't realize the depth of depravity in their own hearts and their own willfulness could never bring them to repentance and faith.
In my teaching over the years, I have expressed very directly God makes no deals and if you come to God hoping to make one, the salvation of Christ is never offered based on what your follow-through after some kindness from Jesus Christ.
For many men I dashed their hopes to pieces and I'm glad of it. For these men their hopes were false, based upon their own sinful con-man ways, they figured God was going to be duped as were their friends, wives, family, bosses etc.
Sermons like Ten Shekels and a Shirt strike at the very heart of this kind of falsehood.
Others were false because their traditions were made a necessity due to parental or peer pressure. Even youths and teens in their youth groups are pressured into belief in Christ and because of some cutie he stays and because of some good friends she stays, but Jesus...he is not part of the equation and when college days come, the demonic philosophy of their professors make a quick work exposing the rocky soil and wayside conditions of their hearts. They were never made fit for good seed and in due course the vanity and foolishness of their youth leaders who deprived them of gospel correction, gospel warning, gospel belief gave them the shifting sand of social acceptance among others. The storms came and their house fell.
For these when I can get an audience to speak to them frankly, I seek to rip away the social moorings that they depended upon for their Christian profession and turn them toward Christ himself, willing to accept them based upon a new understanding that living for self and adding Jesus is the religion of devils, they have never known Christianity in truth.
There is plenty more I could say, but I will say, some truly apostate and turn enemies to the faith I resist and warn everyone against listening to them. These are to be anathematized without apology.


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Marvin

 2017/9/25 21:04Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1802
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

The problem is what level is it on and has the epidemic increased where people try to use worldly methods to reach people forgetting the trail of disaster left behind


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Dominic Shiells

 2017/9/26 5:43Profile
StirItUp
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Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 941
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re: False Conversions:Dealing with People who formallly professed Faith

Brothers,

I have found that, whether dealing with sinners, sects or people who say they are Christians, one must press in and probe through questions and always bring them to a confrontation with the Jesus Christ of the bible, His work on the cross and His Resurrection, ascension and glorification, and His return as Judge over all.

Have they truly bowed the knee and obeyed God by placing their whole trust in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord?

This is the work of God.

Blessings,


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William

 2017/9/26 9:49Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1802
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

My problem is the megavhurch environment of America producing false converts on mass , it is in the western nations from Australia to the uk

1 Timothy 3
King James Bible
Evil in the Last Days
1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

We have an epidemic of narcissistic messages in church where the bible is an unopened book or a bait and switch for a psychological message or a movie related sermon or the bible is used like lucky charms

Would Jeremiah or Ezekiel when they prophecied of judgement be acceptable in the church because it is not positive, we have many prophets today most prophesying prosperity like the false prophets of old .
Or is it like Micah before ahah where he had to listened to 400 prophets predicting health and well being whilst Micah predicted Ahabs death , Micah really loved ahab as he could have could have stopped his death.

Judgement begins at the house of god , where is prophet 401 to tell the church to repent to me we are producing the whore of Babylon church and thy church there are those who want there kingdom or trying to build there kingdom without god and not waiting as in daniel for the stone without hands to smash the kingdoms of this world , we have forgotten eternal hell and heaven.

Many prophets of the bible would not be accepted in the church today including Amos , Isaiah and from the New Testament

paul for his saying that if any man preach any other gospel let him be accused as so many false gospels abound from the nar movement to so many other things

We seem to be manufacturing false converts in churches like on a conveyer belt running through a factory.


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Dominic Shiells

 2017/9/27 18:15Profile









 Re: False Conversions:Dealing with People who formallly professed Faith

Dominic

If there are so many false converts around in the UK, how can you be sure that you are a true one? What makes you confident?

PS You're based in Hemel? We're in the same neck of the woods. I'm only a handful of miles away.

 2017/9/27 18:47
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1802
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

A true convert is one who understands the gospel and actually has a love of the scriptures
understands thing like justification
believes in doctrines such as the trinity , the death and resurrection of Jesus , believe that jesus was both fully God and fully man and other major doctrines
butters where are you from


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Dominic Shiells

 2017/9/28 5:38Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1802
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

http://www.biblebb.com/files/whitefield/gw043.htm
The almost Christian by George Whitfield


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Dominic Shiells

 2017/9/28 6:05Profile









 Re:

Thanks Dominic, I think I agree.

I'm in Rickmansworth.

 2017/9/28 14:10
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1802
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

it is not that if you evangelise in hemel running into people who were formally Christian I evangelise every Saturday on the street,
it is amazing how hard hearted people are to the gospel , do you do evangelism in rickmansworth,
I normally ask a simple question what is the gospel is for christians it is amazing how some people know and others dont
my heart has to been to move to israel and evangelises in Tiberius as I felt so much at home out there but it would take a miracle
on a rating of 1 - 10 the orthodox Jewish community are the hardest but former christians are a nightmare to deal with but people are so ice cold to the gospel


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Dominic Shiells

 2017/9/28 17:36Profile





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