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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The need to be perfect in Christ

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Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257

 The need to be perfect in Christ

I haven't posted in a while on SI, but I would love to hear from some of you concerning your insights.

Here is some scripture to begin:

Col 1:27 to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: 29 whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Ephesians 4:11-13
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Philippians 3:10-14
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Notice in these three passages of scripture that it shows Paul warning people for the need to strive to be presented perfect in Christ Jesus. Paul was also himself striving toward perfection. It also looks like Paul was striving for a resurrection out from among the dead.

Now also notice in:

John 5:24-29
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, -- He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Some see these 3 resurrections differently. I see the one in vs 25 as a spiritual resurrection, meaning to be born of God. I only see two physical resurrections and they are in vs 28,29...and they are the resurrection of the just and the unjust according to:
Acts 24:15
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

I also see from Revelations chapter 20 that the 2 resurrections are separated by the thousand year reign of Christ and those who made it in the first resurrection while the rest of the dead not being raised until after the thousand years.

Revelation 20:5-6
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Now it seems Paul was striving to be conformed completely to the image of Christ, that is perfection in Christ. Now we also know he was pressing toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. We also know there is the judgment seat of Christ that all Christians will appear.

Now here is some of my questions to you on SI that I know have studied the Word of God.

Do you believe that every Christian will be kings and priests of God to rule and reign with Christ a thousand years, even if they are not striving and pressing into God like Paul did?

Do you believe that there will be some Christians who lose out on God's intention for them because they didn't take heed to the warnings of being diligent to make their calling and election sure?

Do you really believe that Christians are just going to be automatically blessed in the afterlife by being changed to a state that they didn't even desire while on this earth?

I mean isn't there a prize to be gain as Paul was saying...that we can actually come short of?

I mean these modern day worldly preachers are leading people astray. They are mainly focused on this life and materialistic gain. The altar, the blood, and the Cross in following Jesus is hardly even preached, or if it is mentioned, it is mentioned mostly for selfish gain instead of Spiritual gain

They act just like all you got to do is just believe and be saved...and then you'll go into heaven after you die, and then receive everything Christ provided for you, even though you didn't desire Christ and the things of God in this life, even though you didn't live Holy and desire to be perfect in Christ.

Any thoughts!
Blessings in Christ...rbanks

 2017/9/7 11:56Profile

Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 975

 Re: The need to be perfect in Christ


I am grateful you brought the subject up.

I once,...some time ago,posted on SI my testimony,......actually The Testimony of Jesus, at work in my may have already seen that-

In it there is something that The Lord showed / shared with me on 'resurrection' when He gave me a strong desire to study another subject.

It is quite long,but let me know,and I will again post it here.


 2017/9/7 20:21Profile

Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


Yes Elizabeth,

Not sure if I've seen the post....but being on the resurrection, I would be interested in your insights.

The reason I posted this thread is because I was in a lengthy conversation recently with someone who believes differently about the resurrection than what I was seeing in scripture.

Also I was seeing how Paul was striving to reach perfection in Christ toward the resurrection from the dead.


 2017/9/7 20:31Profile

Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 975


It is odd that you brought this subject up, as I am looking at looking more into the resurrection,..

Elizabeth's Testimony

Oh my,Where do I start...?
When I was around 17 yrs.old,The Lord' Spirit of Grace started to draw me to God.I was not going to ch. anywhere,...a wife,.....
a mother,....a homemaker...I turned to The Lord,for a short period of time,but I did not have much good soil / water etc, it did not last long.

Then,I would say in about 3yrs.,His Spirit of Grace came back upon me again with a mighty drawing of me to Him.At that time,
....a dread and a fear came over me,....He made me feel like
,if I did not follow Him then,I would never have another chance.

I was so desirous of Him and His Way.Was hungry to read His Word,He told me ,...not get any books,...literature,...not any other material,...just His Word,and He would teach me.and
that is what I did,and it was He who taught me...Now at that time I did not know that was even in The Bible.(1Jn.2:37)
So at that time in my life,and for many,many yrs.,books and
all other material was not for me.Neither did 'tradition' nor man teach me.I had a KJV Bible,and The Spirit of The Lord.

So !,Through Him,my life was changing,...He was changing
me.I was seeking The Kingdom of God,and His righteousness,so to speak,To seek The King,who is Jesus.

He said,'Fear not little flock;for it is your Father's good pleasure
to give you the kingdom' (Lk.12:32)

He was changing me from my way,unto His Way.
...I sought Him to see what He would have me to
Paul ask of The Lord,..'What would Thou have for me to do,Lord' ? ( I believe it is a continual,daily asking ) ( seeking the kingdom of God,and His righteousness )..seeking to see what is His will in my life.

He was taking my soiled ragged clothes,and emptying out,
so He could fill and clothe me with His righteousness., be clothed upon.Being born again,...of His Spirit.

So many things in, way, life,.He wanted to empty out.
And whatever He chose to put His finger on, might be a travail,but I would do.,....down,down,down,...that I might go
up into heavenly places with Him.I wondered Will I never know,....or get to the dividing line? But no,...I believe it is a continuation,or else,we would be leading ourselves.I was blind,
and He wanted to bring me to HIS SEEING.(eyes to see through The Spirit). To change me from my way to His Way,Who is 'The Way'....(That,that comes out of His mouth,through His Spirit)

I followed Him for many yrs.,and then I decided I would do a few things like I used to do.And I remember,The soft gentle voice of God,...said, 'The ways of this world,are not my Ways' .(that is all He said,just that ),...

I was following God,as He would lead me,but there was one thing that I just could not seem to do.And that was to just out-right say 'I will do whatever you say,no matter what,....I would follow Him,but I just could not bring myself to tell Him that ...because,..this little voice inside of me would say,...'You know ,you just cannot do that,because you may not be able to keep that promise,and you know,you just don't promise The Lord something and not do it'.
...I was fearful.

Nevertheless,I walked in this Light that He gave me,..I could see how He wanted me to walk,....I walked in a close relationship
with Him,and being led by Him ,for several yrs.

Then I started not loving Him with all my heart,soul,mind,strength.,not as much as I had loved Him,...getting into too much of my own thing,...and then the
less Light that I had,...the less able I was to see the perfect will of God,and could walk out of His will....and as I began doing
my own will,the True Light got dimmer,.Oh,I might always
seemed a little different to people,but the true witness became that of the world.My home, my family,..became my 'First Love'

Never did I just forget about God.One can drift though,and it is dangerous,but His Seed was planted within me.And He had mercy.

You may say,'But that is innocent ! But Our God is a jealous
God,..He must be our first love ! Oh,I went to church,...went to Bible studies,..sang with every body else in church,...felt good with the music / songs,...But that is not the calling for us with God,....He has called us into a relationship with Him,..that is
Having a Spiritual ear,hearing His voice and following Him,...wherever He goeth,....leads us.

Thinking on the Word 'FEARFUL'!..I believe this word in Rev.21:8
was where I had always been at, as for completely committing my all,to Him,and telling Him so.
Well,I always knew,I had to get past this 'fear',with The Lord, was a serious thing.

Rev.21:8,says,'the FEARFUL' and the unbelieving,and the abominable,and the murderers,,and fornicators,and
sorcerers,and idolaters,and all liars,shall have their part in
the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone,which is the second death.

Then God in His most tender mercies in about the year 1994-
1995,His Grace started again drawing me to Him in a mighty hungry way,...I was already doing Bible studies,...and loved it.
...but this was different.,...I was being drawn more and more
desirous to His Word and to Him,and to give my life completely
to Him,and tell Him so,...and I just loved it.

All my family would be gone to work,and I had the whole day to myself.So I would hurry and get my needful housework done,
and read / study The Word for hours,...until it was time to hurry and prepare supper. My family never knew what I had been doing ,unless they just happened to notice some of my notes lying around.

Well,one of these days as I was thinking on The Lord,and talking to Him,I felt I was at such a desirous time in my life,....and thinking on 'The Fearful',I told Him,....and wanting to be sure,that I did not read my own heart wrong,...I said it this way,...
"Lord,I am willing to follow You,..I give myself to You,....But if there be any unwillingness in me ,please take it away."
And when I said THAT, there was like a Light that shined into my eyes,and down into my heart.
( please note)I did not know this was going to happen.It was most amazing thing!

THEN,The Lord opened The Scriptures to me.....It was GLORIOUS ! ! I deserved none of this,it was totally The Lord' mercy.
He did that for me,this unworthy piece of clay.

Then my Bible Studies became just Glorious !
* The Lord then drawed and drawed me to do a study on 'The kingdom of God' .(I was not being disrespectful),..but of all subjects,I wondered,..Why,The kingdom of God ?'
Nevertheless,I started compiling and compiling about 'The kingdom of God'.Studied and studied,and after a long period of time,,...I was not quite satisfied, I just sort of laid it aside
as other subjects grabbed my attention.

Then,quite some time later, morning as I was arising out of my bed,These words just flowed out of my spirit,...'The kingdom of God is the Resurrected Lord IN US ! ' ....I would never have worded anything like that.....I was so excited,...could
hardly wait to get my family off to work,so I could get my Bible and confirm this.

I began to look up,resurrection,raise,raised,rise,risen,....the more I read,the more excited I got,...this was marvelous !And although I still did not comprehend just what all this meant at the first.

Then He showed me what it meant,...and this is it.

* Where there is a kingdom,there is a king,...and in God'Kingdom,The King is Jesus,...that has come to be our King over God'Kingdom,...that He comes in by way of The Holy Spirit,to Rule,, Lord in our lives....In other words,To lead us in righteousness in His Kingdom, His Spirit.'For as many,as are lead by The Spirit of God,THEY ARE...THEY ARE,THEY ARE,the son's / children of God.',....The Holy Spirit came to do a work in us.
The Kingdom,...and The Holy Spirit is within us.

* I was then surprised when I began go through Paul and other writers,of The Bible to find their preaching / teaching were also
about the kingdom and things pertaining to the kingdom and giving the Words of that kingdom,...persuading us to allow The King to rule in our lives,...through The Spirit...and warning us of consequences for failing to obey.

...Paul often would say,he preached the gospel of God,...the gospel of Jesus,..Jesus said,'THIS GOSPEL'of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world,and then shall the end be...
He said,'I must preach the kingdom of God',..( Lk.4:43 )
He sent His deciples out to 'preach the kingdom of God ..
( Lk.9:2 ),..( Lk: 9:60 )

* John the Baptist,came preaching 'the kingdom of God',...
Jesus came preaching,'the kingdom of God / Heaven,...Paul came preaching the kingdom,and things pertaining / concerning the kingdom, did Peter,James,and John.

...If we remain and be overcomers,..our testimony of Him
continues....> lives,...> His life in us...>>>>>>>>that leads us...

So,..This is my story,this is my song,...singing His praises,
all the day long...>>>

"In Him I Live,and move,and have Life."


.....there is more and our testimony is continued until we die-

 2017/9/7 20:50Profile

Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


That is a powerful testimony sister Elizabeth!

The scripture teaches that the kingdom is within us when we are born of the Spirit of God. The Cross is central to us entering the kingdom of God. There must be the death of our Adam nature on the Cross in order for us the receive the resurrection nature of Jesus within us. The revelation we are to receive is by faith in the death of Christ as our death to the sin nature and faith in His resurrection as our receiving His resurrection life with in us.

We must deny ourselves and take up our Cross and follow Christ. This is what Jesus told Peter he must do in order to have His life ruling within him. Peter could not truly follow the Lord until He surrendered completely and was filled with the Holy Spirit.

The apostle Paul was saved and filled with the Holy Spirit continually to follow Christ through much suffering to witness for Christ in preaching and teaching, to win the lost and disciple believers. He also was always striving to be formed to the image of Christ. He told us about the judgment seat of Christ where we will all be judged. He was striving toward perfection and to the attaining the resurrection from the dead. He was always pressing toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God. He was running in a race as only one could win. He kept his body disciplined. He was warning every man about the need to be perfect in Christ Jesus.

I could go on and talk about Peter saying that judgment must begin at the house of God. That through much tribulation will we go through to enter the kingdom of God at last. He that endureth unto the end shall be saved. The groaning for the redemption of our bodies. The desire to be clothe upon with immortality.

It seems that in the resurrection of our bodies at the last day, that our future course is set by the desire and striving that we have diligently pursued by the way we live in the life of Christ while on earth.

Colossians 3:1-4
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

The scriptures teach that Christ is our life and we are to live by His life on the earth, and that we are to mortify everything of our carnal nature. Everything of our carnal nature must decrease and the life of Christ must increase. So it seems to mean that how much we know Christ and are perfected in Christ is how we will spend eternity with Christ.

In other words one cannot be lukewarm and worldly on the earth and expect to automatically get to rule and reign with Christ as kings and priests of God in eternity.


 2017/9/7 21:47Profile

Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 975


Loved the Scriptures you gave, and insight.

And this line sentence too was so note-worthy,.......

"Peter could not truly follow the Lord until He surrendered completely and was filled with the Holy Spirit."


 2017/9/7 22:26Profile

Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


Luke 20:34-36
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 but they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Philippians 3:10-14
10 that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Notice what ii says in
Luke 20:35 but they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

Compare with Paul in
Phil 3:11 if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Luke says "be accounted worthy to obtain that world and the resurrection from the dead"

Paul says "if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead"

Notice how Paul was striving so diligently to attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

After Peter said that judgment must begin at the house of God, he then said that if the righteous are scarcely saved, where shall the sinner and the ungodly appear.

We know that Paul was not striving to get saved because he was already saved and filled with the Spirit.

I'm believing it was some how to be closer to His Lord Jesus Christ in eternity, it was a resurrection out from the dead that rewarded Him with more perfection in Christ. Paul wanted to win Christ, and be filled with Christ for all eternity. Evidently he was diligently striving because he didn't want to miss out on this glorious prize.


 2017/9/7 23:08Profile

Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 975


Paul was seeking the kingdom of God, and His righteousness,....
From the time that the Light from heaven shined on him,and he said,
"Lord, what would thou have for me to do ?"...(that is seeking the kingdom of God,and His righteousness.) And Paul continued to seek that king [dom]
Always,.....night and day.....reaching for that 'high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Jesus wants to continually save us from our sins,..He wants to Hallow His Name that He has given unto us when we were born of Him,..(His Spirit)
"Hallow be thy Name,..thy kingdom come,thy will be done IN EARTH, as it is in heaven"... that is what Paul was continually after.

The Holy Spirit is within us...
The Word is within us..
The kingdom of God within us..

All ALIVE within:..
..not to lie dead, but to allow His Will , through His Spirit to be lived out in us."The Resurrected Lord in us"

The Holy Spirit guides The Word as to how The King,wants us to live in His kingdom,....

We need more Grace,... for sure.

 2017/9/8 0:09Profile

Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


Yes sister....I agree!

Paul prayed and labored continually, seeking and doing the will of the Lord.

His faith and trust was in Christ continually pressing into the Spiritual realm to experience Christ and His righteousness. He knew it was all because of God's grace through faith in Christ Jesus.

He knew that without faith, it was impossible to please God. He knew that God is now present with him and for him. He knew that he would be rewarded with God's continual presence in his life if he would continually come to God diligently seeking Him and His will. He said "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me".


 2017/9/8 8:31Profile

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