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The greek word for sealing or marking in Rev 7 and Rev 13 is not the same, but does it really matter?
| 2017/8/28 18:30||Profile|
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Thanks for the response Bro Blaine:
It boils down to a couple of things for me.
1. That I will not assume that someone who has taken the mark is unforgivable. They may have the gospel preached to them and they may believe. God is not withdrawing his promises, even when terrible threatening's are made.
2. The assumption is being made that a "Christ-rejection is being done", when in fact all sinners are already alienated from Christ, already with enmity in their hearts and already dead in trespasses and sins...without even coming close to a "mark". Seeing as that is so, not everyone has had the gospel preached to them and they may have taken the mark without the opportunity to hear the gospel or be offered salvation through Christ.
This means I must continue to obey the great commission even in tire times. It also means that I cannot tell the elect from the non-elect and because they've taken the mark with its declared doom, I have no reason to assume it is equal to Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit were there is no forgiveness.
The assumptions you are making based on eschatology or based on some other idea, I will not make nor end any gospel preaching while the promises of God are available to the lost.
So, while you can truly declare doom on Mark-takers, I find this doom-saying a little off balance.
Why? Because you will go to hell just as fast for humanism, materialism, false religions, fake Christianity, paganism and a whole world of other isms and sins that keep men from God. In short, what I read in Revelation 14, while fearful and terrible to be sure...and rightly to be spoken warning people not to take the mark... that same diligence and urgency should be made in regards to all the other ploys of Satan whereby he is dragging multitudes to hell without the implementation of any "beast-mark" to accomplish it.
| 2017/8/29 19:00||Profile|
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••• So, while you can truly declare doom on Mark-takers, I find this doom-saying a little off balance. •••
Marvin the scripture speak for themselves. I only stated what with the scriptures have stated. If you say my view is off balance. Then you're saying in essence that the scriptures are off-balance.
Even your own Doctor John MacArthur has said we need to go with the plain reading of the text. The plain reading of the text says that whoever takes the mark of the beast and worship the Antichrist will be doomed to the lake of fire and brimstone. If you have an issue with this then basically you have an issue with the scriptures themselves.
I can really say no more to you on this topic. I have recent anarchic from the word of God. So basically I think this will be considered my last post on this issue.
| 2017/8/29 21:04|
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Bro Blaine: I've spoken to a lot of guys like you that when they quote the scriptures they do so with very little exegesis. You assume your veiled interpretations are equal to scripture themselves when in fact they are not. This is not a sign you are rightly handling the text you're merely asserting a very thinly explained version overlaid with constant quotations. Bro Blaine this is substandard in any format, even the cults can do this.
You are not reading what I am saying carefully, so in effect you are not interested in my questioning you are more interested in simply asserting your interpretation without actually exegeting anything or respectfully offering a solution to my questions.
It's ok if you don't want to answer, you are not obligated to me, nor are you actually obligated to field dissenters, but and this is an important but...you cannot truly consider yourself a careful exegete on this topic. If you will not explain the opposing scriptures on your version then it remains that this topic is far from concluded and though you may dismiss yourself ( which is fine)you have now shown to another studious Christian who does not take things at face value...even from guys like you who consider a strong assertion + scripture-quote = absolute uncontestable truth.
I'll leave off any more replies, I was never intending this to be argumentative ( though I did disagree) I only wanted a fuller explanation of other equally important scriptures that weigh in on a matter like this.
On a personal note, if you do not try to understand your dissenters how can you properly instruct them with patience or learn with them about that subject? The question is rhetorical, you need not answer this posting.
| 2017/8/29 22:22||Profile|
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Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
==> WHOSOEVER received the mark - will not live to see Revelation 20:4 .....and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
So why they think they are, still can or will be saved? Many are ignorant, some know exactly what they're saying:
Isaiah 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
| 2017/8/29 23:01||Profile|
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One important point is that Bears (and others) version depends on this "mark" being some sort of an indelible permanent tattoo or some such similar thing. That is, if you get tattooed or chipped or whatever, you are toast.
But what if this not a literal "stamp" at all? There is plenty of internal evidence in Revelation itself that these marks are not literal. Many respected commentators say the mark is not literal. Rather, it is a symbolic way of expressing where ones loyalties may lie.
A person who is loyal to (marked by) Satan and dies in that condition is doomed. A person who is loyal to (marked by) Christ is saved.
At one time in all of our lives we were marked by Satan- we identified with him. But by the grace of God our loyalties have changed.
I believe all that the verses in Rev 14 tell us, taking out all the apocalyptic imagery, is that your fate depends upon where your loyalty lies.
| 2017/8/30 7:40||Profile|