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AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3546
Louisiana

 Re:



William Booth, 1894
Founder of Salvation Army:
Send The Fire:

Thou Christ of burning, cleansing flame,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
Thy blood-bought gift today we claim,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
Look down and see this waiting host,
Give us the promised Holy Ghost;
We want another Pentecost,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
God of Elijah, hear our cry:
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
To make us fit to live or die,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
To burn up every trace of sin,
To bring the light and glory in,
The revolution now begin,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
’Tis fire we want, for fire we plead,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
The fire will meet our every need,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
For strength to ever do the right,
For grace to conquer in the fight,
For pow’r to walk the world in white,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
To make our weak hearts strong and brave,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
To live a dying world to save,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!
Oh, see us on Thy altar lay
Our lives, our all, this very day;
To crown the off’ring now we pray,
Send the fire, send the fire, send the fire!

A. B. Simpson wrote:

The baptism of John represented the cleansing of our life and conduct, the reformation of our character, and the work of the law and the truth upon human hearts. But Christ’s baptism was by fire, and went to the roots of conduct. The purity He required included motives, aims, and the “thoughts and intents of the heart.” He not only requires but He gives the purity that springs from the depths of our being. Like the flame that consumes the dross and leaves the molten metal pure and unalloyed, so the Holy Ghost separates us from our old sinful and self-like nature and burns into us the nature of the life of Christ (The Holy Spirit).

William Evans, writing in The Great Doctrines of the Bible, said one of the names ascribed to the Holy Spirit is “the Spirit of burning.” Evans cites two scriptures: Matthew 3:11 (“He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire)” and Isaiah 4:4 (“When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion . . . by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning”). This cleansing from filth is done by the blast of the Spirit’s burning. Here is the searching, illuminating, refining, dross-consuming character of the Spirit. He burns up the dross in our lives when He enters to take possession.

George D. Watson wrote:

True fire has its seat in the heart. It melts the affections . . . and all its furnace flames are centered in the love nature. False fire runs up into the head and centers itself in the imagination and produces rashness and impractical schemes. It produces an unbalanced view of truth. True fire produces great tenderness of spirit and a yearning in the soul for the welfare of everyone (apologeticsindex.org).

“Men ablaze are invincible,” said Samuel Chadwick. “Hell trembles when men kindle. The church is powerless without the flame of the Holy Ghost. Destitute of fire, nothing else really counts; possessed of fire, nothing else really matters. Without the flame and fervor of the Holy Ghost, the church will never accomplish its mission.”


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Mike

 2017/8/25 5:01Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1762


 Re: What is the Baptism of Fire

The interpretation of Baptism of fire posted here is totally erroneous. To interpret this way, as the post says, one has to read the scripture this way

Quote:

Whether you are baptized by
me or not, you shall all be baptized by the coming mighty One, either
by the Holy Spirit, OR in fire!




But the scripture does not say Holy Spirit OR fire, but Holy Spirit AND Fire. Any interpretation of scripture that requires altering the scripture is a lie of the devil! Period.

Jesus himself said - Luke 12:49 I have come to ignite a fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Heb 12:29 -For our God is a consuming fire.

When God himself is a consuming fire, how can his Spirit (Holy Spirit) not be compared to a consuming fire!

Like I said all these alternate interpretations have been deviced to prove the Pentecostals wrong. Not everything practiced among Pentecostals are real fire, but ignoring the fire because of fake fire, is another extreme.


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Sreeram

 2017/8/25 10:38Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

So far nobody seem to understand John the Baptist
in context, but everybody creates their own context.

Here a bit of context of what other terms used mean actually:

Deuteronomy 4:24  For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

When thou shalt beget children, and children's children, and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves, and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger: I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed. And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you. And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

 2017/8/25 19:01Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

"There are 515 verses of scripture referring to "fire"; none of which subjects believers themselves to fire. So, clearly, believers shall never be "baptized" with fire." -- Berean Research Institute

So where they get it from? Fables and false teachers

"On Aug. 11, 1927, Smith Wigglesworth stood in Angelus Temple to preach on preparing for the Second Coming of Christ. He told the audience that liquid fire was consuming him. Then Wigglesworth made this opening statement:

But there will be things that will happen prior to His coming that we shall know. You can tell. I am like one this morning that is moving with a liquid, holy, indispensable, real fire in my bosom, and I know it is burning and the body is not consumed. It is real fire from heaven that is making my utterances come to you to know that He is coming. He is on the way. God is going to help me tell you why you will know. You that have the breath of the Spirit, there is something now moving as I speak. As I speak, this breath of mighty, quickening, moving, changing, desirable power is making you know and it is this alone that is making you know that you will be ready.........." --- charismanews

 
"liquid fire" - unscriptural, but sounds good, like flowing lava

"holy, indispensable, real fire in bosom" - unscriptural, there are 515 verses of scripture referring to "fire"; none of which subjects believers themselves to fire.

"I know it is burning and the body is not consumed" - unscriptural, but reminds of the lake of fire where 'their worm dieth not' and is not consumed

"It is real fire from heaven" - ....he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men Rev 13:13


 2017/8/25 19:02Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1762


 Re:

Quote:

So far nobody seem to understand John the Baptist
in context, but everybody creates their own context.




Let us see what the context is,

Matt 3-11-I baptize YOU with water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize YOU with the Holy Spirit and with fire.


The YOU used in the starting of verse 11 refers to those who obey God by being baptized by John. So the word YOU in the last part where he says 'baptize YOU with the Holy Spirit and with Fire', should mean the same YOU. This is how anyone who reads this verse in context will assume.

The alternate meaning that you are proposing here will work only when we do the following,

1. Assume that the word YOU is referring to different set of people for Holy Spirit compared to fire. Which is not the case when read with the context within verse 11.

2. Replace AND with OR.

In either case it is not a straightforward explanation of Matt 3-11.

Quote:

Deuteronomy 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.



Exactly, the title 'consuming fire' and jealous are both same. A fire cannot be restricted from consuming just one part of the object. Fire's nature is always to consume the entire object placed in it. Same way our God will also consume the entire person for himself. He is not a God who is happy with just partial obedience to him. Like Jesus said, one cannot serve God and money!

Baptism of Holy Spirit is compared with baptism of fire because just like fire that consumes the entire object, Holy Spirit will now take control of entire person. Like how Jesus was, 'Zeal for God's house has consumed him'.


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Sreeram

 2017/8/25 20:23Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1762


 Re: Holy Spirit as Fire, Water and Wind

In New Covenant we have the Holy Spirit compared as all these 3 basic elements.

1. Fire - Matt 3:11 - Jesus will Baptize you with Holy Spirit and Fire.

2. Wind - The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

3. Water - John 4- 17 - the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.


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Sreeram

 2017/8/25 20:27Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

What is the Baptism of Fire

If the Bible itself is not understandable to you:

check Wikipedia if you want to understand it
according to the teaching of 1900 years of Christianity

I also could point you to a Christian forum where
they all understand it, according to scripture,
but that would probably be against the tos .

The question is: Why do pentecostals and
charismatics not understand simple doctrines as this?

 2017/8/25 20:59Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5533
NC, USA

 Re:

Luke 24:32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”


_________________
Todd

 2017/8/25 21:14Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

Let me try one more time, there is always
a hope that at least one person can focus
and concentrate long enough to see it:


In Matthew 3:7-12 we find three times 'fire'

Every tree that doesn't bring good fruit :

a) is cast into the fire

b) will get baptized with fire

c) and will burn up with unquenchable fire




 2017/8/26 2:52Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5533
NC, USA

 Re:

From Matthew Henry's commentary(don't think he was a charismatic):

"They who are baptized with the Holy Ghost are baptized as with fire; the seven spirits of God appear as seven lamps of fire, Rev. 4:5. Is fire enlightening? So the Spirit is a Spirit of illumination. Is it warming? And do not their hearts burn within them? Is it consuming? And does not the Spirit of judgment, as a Spirit of burning, consume the dross of their corruptions? Does fire make all it seizes like itself? And does it move upwards? So does the Spirit make the soul holy like itself, and its tendency is heaven-ward. Christ says I am come to send fire, Lu. 12:49."


_________________
Todd

 2017/8/26 8:16Profile





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