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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : concerning baptism

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 Re:

Stever posted:

I have been thinking about this lately and eventhough I can't back it up by Scripture think that the new beleiver is baptized into Christ's blood. Eventhough the element that we use here is water (on this earth), the actual element in Heaven (in the Spiritual realm) is Christ's blood.



Servus said:
When we begin to believe things about God merely based upon our own ideas, we start to tread on dangerous ground. If one is to know the truth of our faith, it comes only through prayer along with the careful studying of God's Word. If it's not found in there, then it's most likely not the truth. If you seriously believe that this is something that God is speaking to your heart, then I suggest you sit down and study more and look for scriptures to back what you're saying. If you come up with anything I would be delighted to hear what you have to share.


Stevers response:
There are many verses in the New Testament that refer to the power of Christ's blood. There is one verse in Revelation that perhaps is behind my thoughts and gives some support for them (although not positively clear):

Revelation 1:5.

"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, AND WASHED US FROM OUR SINS IN HIS OWN BLOOD,"

Other verses in the Bible that make me wonder about this are:

1 PETER 1:18-19
18. Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19. But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:


HEBREWS 13:20
20. Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

HEBREWS 13:12
12. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

HEBREWS 12:24
24. And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

HEBREWS 9:18-28
18. Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20. Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25. Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26. For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

COL 1:14
14. In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

ACTS 20:28
28. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

I could go on and on with other quotes, but maybe you can see the gist of my thoughts on this matter.

Do I think this is "Doctrine", something to teach others? Of course not. I was only musing and thought that other Christians might have had the same thoughts, based upon Scripture, found in the Bible, and was hoping to hear from them on this post.

God bless,

Stever

 2005/6/27 9:30









 Re:

Here is one I came across when I was wondering how to respond. I think we can all recognise this language.

Genesis 49
11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:

 2005/6/27 9:50
roman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/18
Posts: 41


 Re:

Quote:
Ephesians 4:5 which says that there is "One Lord, one faith, [b]one baptism[/b]" So there cannot be two baptisms that we are baptized

Ephesians 4:5 which says that there is "One Lord, one faith, [b]one baptism[/b]"

If I may share my understanding of this "one baptism," I believe Paul was not referring to the "type of baptism" (ie, baptism in water & baptism of the Holy Spirit). I believe Paul is referring to "under whose name they were baptised." Be it water baptism or Holy Spirit, it is still a baptism in the name of Jesus. Weren't they baptised under one NAME?

In our present time, it is still an issue: baptism in the name of Jesus OR baptism in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit; - [u][b]but still one God[/b][/u] :-) . Remember, there was also a baptism by John (the baptist); and if I may add


[i]1Cor 15:29 "Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are [u][b]baptized for the dead[/b][/u]? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?"[/i]

Under whose name these people were baptised? Perhaps under another name . . . I don't know.

[i]P.S.
Just to be clear, I am a "Triune God" believer.[/i]

 2005/6/30 4:45Profile
Servus
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 17


 Re:

Hey Stever, I was not meaning to attack what you were saying, and I am sorry if I came across like that. What I was getting at is that I don't think we should speak on anything that we "think" unless we have a basis for it. As I said before that can be dangerous and has lead to many divisions in the church. Too many people these days like to form their own opinions of God based on what they think He should be like rather than basing it on what the scriptures says about Him. I deal with a lot of people like this and it really bothers me. I see that you are not one of those people and that you have been doing your reading. Thank you for the scriptures that you have provided, this is a very interesting point you have addressed and I would like to study it further. If it wouldn't be too much trouble I would love to look at some of the other scriptures that have led your thinking in this direction. As I have said before I do not know everything about the Bible or even claim to. All I care about is learning and knowing the truth of God's word, and this can not be done without studying. If it's not too much to ask could you please provide me with the other verses that are of interest on this subject so that I may cross reference them? It would be much appreciated.Thank you.
May the Lord bless and keep you.
Always in Christ Jesus, ~Shaun


_________________
Shaun

 2005/7/1 2:08Profile
ReceivedText
Member



Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Re: Baptism according to the Bible

Quote:
Stever writes:

I have been thinking about this lately and eventhough I can't back it up by Scripture think that the new beleiver is baptized into Christ's blood. Eventhough the element that we use here is water (on this earth), the actual element in Heaven (in the Spiritual realm) is Christ's blood.



That is why you have to make all of this stuff up. Plain Scriptural teaching isn't good enough for you because you don't agree with it. You don't believe that a person must repent and be baptized "for the remission of sins." (Acts 2:38) We went through all of this in the last thread on baptism in Biblical salvation.

A person is baptized "into Christ" Himself. At least that is what the Bible says:

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." [Galatians 3:27]

Being baptized "into Christ" is being baptized "into His death:"

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" [Romans 6:3]

Baptism in water is our submission to the covenant, our circumcision:

Col. 2:11 "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh [b]by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism[/b], wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

You know, if you would just read the Bible for what it says, it would be a whole lot easier.

RT

 2005/7/1 3:25Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
That is why you have to make all of this stuff up. Plain Scriptural teaching isn't good enough for you because you don't agree with it. You don't believe that a person must repent and be baptized "for the remission of sins." (Acts 2:38) We went through all of this in the last thread on baptism in Biblical salvation.


RT
We did indeed and I would just like to remind folks that 'for the remission of sins' does not mean that it effects 'remission of sins' but that it is with 'remission of sins' in view. This is the Greek preposition 'eis' which means 'into' or 'towards' or 'with a view to'. (Matt. 26:28; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; Acts 2:38)

I would advise you (stever) not to create terms such as 'baptism into Christ's blood'; it can only lead to confusion.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/7/1 3:51Profile
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

All, if you saw a poster that said:

"Jesse James: Wanted for robbery"

Is this poster after Jesse James because he has already comitted a robbery or that someone is advertising for him to commit a robbery?


_________________
Mark Nash

 2005/7/4 9:02Profile









 Re:

Philogos said:


I would advise you (stever) not to create terms such as 'baptism into Christ's blood'; it can only lead to confusion.


Stever's response:

Like I said before, I was only musing (thinking) about the possibility. Since we are indeed baptized into His death (Romans 6:3), and since all of the sacrifices since the beginning have consisted of placing the blood on the altar, as well as once a year having the blood placed on the Mercy Seat, which again is a picture of Christ (at the day of Atonement, always celebrated on the 10th of Tishre).......it is really not a stretch to consider being baptized into Christ's precious blood.

It is not doctrine that I am talking about here, only thoughts of the supernatural person that we have to deal with--Jesus Christ, the God Man who lives and reigns in his resurrected, glorified body at the right hand of the Father.

At the resurrection everything will be clear to us, because now we only see through the glass darkly. I am looking forward to this event!

God bless,

Stever

 2005/7/4 17:49









 Re:

RT said:

Baptism in water is our submission to the covenant, our circumcision:


Stever's reply:

Christ said:
"4. And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5. For John truly baptized with water; BUT YE SHALL BE BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY GHOST NOT MANY DAYS HENCE."

RT, it occurs to me that eventhough you claim to speak in tongues, that you have never been Baptized into the Holy Spirit. If you had been, you would know the difference between being saved and baptized in water, and the baptism that Christ referred to above that empowers the Spirit Filled believer (after this baptism of the SPIRIT) to boldly witness to the lost, & pray for the sick and expect healing. Your posts show no understanding of this reality.

God bless,

Stever

 2005/7/4 18:23









 Re:

More thoughts upon the Precious Blood Of Jesus Christ, from God's Word:

1 Peter 1:18-25

18. Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19. BUT WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST, as of a LAMB WITHOUT BLEMISH AND WITHOUT SPOT:
20. Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21. Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25. But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.


God Bless,

Stever

 2005/7/6 15:31





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