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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : concerning baptism

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Servus
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 17


 concerning baptism

Okay we were challanged to get into our Bibles and do some research on the subject. I am not a Bible scholar or anything like that, but I do love to study the word of the Lord so please bear with me. I have found some verses that I feel deserve mentioning in regards to this subject. The first one I want to point out would be Ephesians 4:5 which says that there is "One Lord, one faith, one baptism" So there cannot be two baptisms that we are baptized into. It is only one baptism that brings about salvation. So if our salvation is based upon the water baptism, then it seems to me that would mean we don't get baptized by the Holy Spirit and vice-versa. "One baptism" not two. Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, and John 1:33 all say essentially the same thing, but in order to keep this from being too long, I will quote from Mark 1:8 which says "I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost." This is clearly shows two different baptisms, that of water, and that of the Holy Spirit. Only one of these baptisms are important to our salvation or the verse would have read "One God, one faith, two baptisms". Again, Jesus Christ Himself also made the distinction in Acts 1:5 where he said "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence." The next passage I wish to share with you is 1Peter 3:20,21 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" This verse says that it is not our washing of the flesh that saves us, but our conscience toward God. The washing of the flesh is merely superficial. What God wants is the cleansing of the inside, otherwise we become nothing more than a "whited sepulchre" beautiful on the outside, and full of uncleanness on the inside.

With all that being said, I do believe that water baptism does have it's place. Water baptism is a public confirmation of our faith. It is a way of getting out and publically declaring "Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour" like it says in Matthew 10:32 "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven." Which shows that the "confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus" which we find in Romans 10:9 is more than just a private "Jesus be my Lord" deal, but an open public confessing of Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour. Acts chapter 10 is an important chapter to read concerning this subject, for the people had already received the Holy Spirit before they were baptized with water. Verse 47 says "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" It seems at this point that the baptism would be nothing more than a confirmation of their faith, seeing as they had already been "sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise". I believe that we should all be water baptized if for no other reason than that. Unless a person is allergic to water there is no good reason not to.
Resisting being baptized, to me seems like resisting God. If a person's reason for not getting baptized is merely because "I don't have to be baptized in water in order to be saved" then that is nothing more than rebellion and that person should really examine themselves and see if what they're doing is of God. It's rejecting an opportunity to get out and make known your faith in Jesus Christ who has bought and redeemed you with His precious blood, just because one may wish to make a statement to those who believe that you must be water baptized.

I admit that I do not know a lot about the Bible, and if I have made any mistakes I am always open to correction because I don't really care if I'm right or wrong. What matters is knowing the truth of God's word, and I am willing to accept correction if I am shown to be wrong. Your comments are very much welcomed. Thank you for your time.


_________________
Shaun

 2005/6/18 20:15Profile









 Re: concerning baptism

First off, i was going to start this thread, you beat me to it ;-) .

And, some of the scripture you have quoted, i believe 'baptised' means death or death of Christ.

I was thinking about this for a while, WHY ARE WE (Charasmatic/Pentacostals..any one 'spirit-filled') preaching TWO baptisms. But, truly baptism by water is a BAPTISM.

'Baptism of the Holy Spirit' is a FILLING and RECEIVING(i don't believe those who are 'saved' have the Holy Spirit, but have it ACTIVE in their life), EMPOWERING TO WITNESS AND EDIFY THE BODY (with Gifts FROM ABOVE, NOT BY MAN!), and a true outpouring of Authority.

 2005/6/20 2:22
Servus
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 17


 Re: concerning baptism

Actually all the verses I quoted mean "baptize".
Ephesians 4:5 and 1Peter 3:21 are from the Greek baptisma which is described by Strongs Greek dictionary as follows "From G907; baptism (technically or figuratively): - baptism." And then Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33, and Acts 10:47 are all the Greek word baptizo which is "From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash." So you see, all the verses I quoted that were dealing with baptism, were talking about an actual baptism. Both Jesus and John were clearly making a distinction between John's type of baptism and that baptism with which Jesus would baptize. :-D


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Shaun

 2005/6/20 5:25Profile









 Re:

A point made in the other thread discussing baptism, is that 'baptise' means [i]immerse[/i].

So, when you say

Quote:
So you see, all the verses I quoted that were dealing with baptism, [b]were talking about an actual baptism[/b]. Both Jesus and John were clearly making a distinction between John's type of baptism and that baptism with which Jesus would baptize.


'were talking about an actual baptism', do you mean [i]water or spirit[/i] baptism?

 2005/6/20 11:22
Servus
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 17


 Re:

Actually I was referring to both.
The whole purpose of what I wrote was to explain the differences in water baptism, or baptism of the Spirit in those verses.


_________________
Shaun

 2005/6/21 7:15Profile









 Re: Servus

Do yourself and everyone else a favor. Everywhere you see the word Baptize or Baptism, substitute immerse or immersion. And then read the text again asking the Holy Spirit to reveal to you what it says. I hope your will find that the text becomes much more clear to you.

Shalom,

Lahry

 2005/6/21 7:20
Welch
Member



Joined: 2005/6/23
Posts: 13
Florida

 Re:

Brothers and Sisters... Faith without works is dead... show me your faith without works and I will show you my fait by works.

I'm Southern Baptist, and I woulnd't have it any other way. I tell you this though that Baptism is is a step of Faith, a work of Faith, and obedience, nothing more! I don't say it's not important because one who has accepted Christ is not likely to reject Baptism but thrilled to please their new savior. I believe this to be the same emphasis that Jesus and John are putting on Baptism, it's important but when compared to the Salvation of the Soul through the Baptism of the Spirit (again, salvation) it's a symbolic act of Faith. Again, please don't get me wrong it it VERY important to follow through, it symbolizes that you are planning on living an active life for Christ and not one that is ashamed of Him that He may one day be Ashamed of us!

An old representation in our Church goes like this:

If a man just got married refuses to take the ring from his wife during the ceremony, does this mean that he's not legally married? No... but is he serious? Doe he really want to acknowledge his wife if he acts like this? again, no.

It's also told like this (much simpler) If I remove my wedding ring, does it make me any less married than I already am? No but it's a strong symbol of commitment and love.

Great post, I love you all.

 2005/6/24 15:32Profile









 Re:

Stever writes:

I have been thinking about this lately and eventhough I can't back it up by Scripture think that the new beleiver is baptized into Christ's blood. Eventhough the element that we use here is water (on this earth), the actual element in Heaven (in the Spiritual realm) is Christ's blood.

The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is nothing more than the overflow, the "outpouring" of the Holy Spirit that already resides within the believer. The purpose for this baptism is only to specifically empower the believer to go about Christ's work of witnessing to the lost.

God bless,

Stever

 2005/6/25 10:53
Servus
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 17


 Re:

Quote:
I have been thinking about this lately and eventhough I can't back it up by Scripture think that the new beleiver is baptized into Christ's blood. Eventhough the element that we use here is water (on this earth), the actual element in Heaven (in the Spiritual realm) is Christ's blood.


Our belief in the Lord God, and our Saviour Jesus Christ should be based upon scripture, for it is the word of God given to us so that we would know the truth. When we begin to believe things about God merely based upon our own ideas, we start to tread on dangerous ground. If one is to know the truth of our faith, it comes only through prayer along with the careful studying of God's Word. If it's not found in there, then it's most likely not the truth. If you seriously believe that this is something that God is speaking to your heart, then I suggest you sit down and study more and look for scriptures to back what you're saying. If you come up with anything I would be delighted to hear what you have to share.

Always in Christ ~ Shaun


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Shaun

 2005/6/27 1:45Profile









 Re: concerning baptism

Stever,

I think the difficulty in expressing it, is in moving between the actual history which is a kind of picture language to us now, and the realm of the Holy Spirit, who makes all Truth real to our hearts, our understanding and gradually to our experience.

Overlaid, there is the realm of symbolism, in which bread, wine and water are used both as spiritual terms of reference, [i]and[/i] which we partake in the realtime reality of our own lives.

Servus,

Stever is on to something here, but I know my limitations! There is no way I can begin to explain it, but philologos will be able to make the scriptural connections more clear.

It might be interesting for both of you to look at the start of his thread on p4 in this forum, called 'Propitiation and the red heifer'. I suspect it will answer some questions of where to find things in scripture, too.

 2005/6/27 9:20





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