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TakeUptheCross
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Joined: 2016/8/10
Posts: 242
Germany

 Re:

I have couple of questions, and I think they are not off-topic.

1. Bro Travis, I've realized few years ago the difference between John's epistle and all other epistles. Have you any idea why did John get such revelation of God - and I do not mean the book of Revelation - but why did He get hold of those words of Christ, those discussion with the Jews, the fellowship on the Lord's supper? "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Does it have something to do with his personal desire to know the Lord, with his character? Cause I think that Peter or James could have as well leaned on Jesus's breast - but they didn't. Or at least it is not recorded. Hope you understand my thoughts.

2. Is it possible to have all our doctrine right? I yesterday talked with some people from the church and I said something like "I don't think we will ever know all things." But as I thought of it today - I think I was wrong.

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Ephesians 4:12, 13)

"Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:25-27)

The other verse that seems to be somewhat in contrast to that is: "For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." (and we know that speaks of the time when we will see God face to face).

I know that a Christian should never stop to grow. S. Wigglesworth has said: "To live two days in succession on the same spiritual plane is a tragedy." And I know that we should always run, fight and strive like Paul. But isn't there a fullness that God want us to receive / arrive at. Christ said that the Holy Spirit would guide us into "all truth" - so I think it should be possible to have all doctrine and practice right. I think, it is the will of God.

 2017/8/14 14:13Profile
TakeUptheCross
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Joined: 2016/8/10
Posts: 242
Germany

 Re:

 2017/8/14 14:13Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
1. Bro Travis, I've realized few years ago the difference between John's epistle and all other epistles. Have you any idea why did John get such revelation of God - and I do not mean the book of Revelation - but why did He get hold of those words of Christ, those discussion with the Jews, the fellowship on the Lord's supper? "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Does it have something to do with his personal desire to know the Lord, with his character? Cause I think that Peter or James could have as well leaned on Jesus's breast - but they didn't. Or at least it is not recorded. Hope you understand my thoughts.



I believe you are right. There seems to be a revelation that John received, or at least was able to communicate, that somehow seems to go a step beyond that what is communicated by the writers of the other gospels. And John says of himself that he was the disciple that Jesus loved.

I think there is something to that. Paul tells us in Ephesians 3 that comprehending the love of God for us is the key to being filled with all the fullness of God. In fact, it implies that apart from this revelation we will only be partially filled with what God has for us.

I think that most of us have not been able to comprehend the breadth, length, height, and depth of His love for us. That revelation of His love passes knowledge, meaning we cannot in our own intellectual understanding even begin to approach an understanding of His love for us. It takes the revelation of the Holy Spirit to have this kind of understanding.

John had this revelation. And I believe it opened the door in His life for a greater revelation of who God is and who Christ is. I agree with you. I think we all have this level of revelation of His love available to us. But will we reach out and receive it? Most of us would say yes, yet we cannot receive it with our hands filled with other things, and I think most of us are not yet willing to let go of those other things. Those things might be sinful things, but that is not what I am talking about here. Those things are usually our own ideas of what this walk with God should look like.

For example, I have seen many people get somewhat offended at (meaning to stumble at) certain things the Bible has to say about believers. We might read that we have received His righteousness and stand before God just as righteous as Jesus is. But we see our own flesh and have been taught that we are, praise God, going to heaven, but it is almost as if God has to look the other way for us to get there and we think it blasphemous to think we are as righteous as Jesus. We are focused on man's teaching and our own flesh, which can never be perfect, thus the reason for glorification at the end of it all. Yet there are lists of scriptures that speak to the righteousness we have received from Him, and not our own righteousness. We must let go of our own in order to have His if that makes sense.

Quote:
2. Is it possible to have all our doctrine right? I yesterday talked with some people from the church and I said something like "I don't think we will ever know all things." But as I thought of it today - I think I was wrong.



In totality, I think no. But I do believe we will in ever increasing measure. I love the scriptures you quoted. I would also add 1 Cor. chapter 2. At one time eye had not seen and ear had not heard. But we have been given that knowledge and that revelation through the Holy Spirit. Through the Holy Spirit we have been given the mind of Christ. I love the way one singer put it. The song says, "I'm out of my mind and into the mind of Christ."

But again, I think the rate and depth of growth into maturity is directly proportional to the level of relationship. If you abide in Me (first) and my words abide in you (second), then shall you ask what you will.... Revelation knowledge comes through time and relationship. Abiding is the key to understanding. Look at how Paul's teaching that we have revelation of the love of God brings the fullness of God. Look at how John tells us to abide in Him and His word in us brings answered prayer. This should be, I think, one of the major things that we teach believers. Intimacy and relationship lead to maturity and fruit.

In 1 Cor. 1:10, Paul expresses His desire for unity in the church. But the same thing that Paul wants them to speak only comes as they all receive revelation from God and this happens only when they all are in close communion with Him. I do believe it is His will that we have all of our doctrine and practice right. We are the ones that keep His will from coming to pass in this area.


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Travis

 2017/8/15 8:30Profile
AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3487
Louisiana

 Re: The Path to Spiritual Maturity

Spiritual maturity is all about becoming fruitful, bearing fruit, and this was mentioned on another thread that the only way that we are going to be fruitful is to abide in Christ, and have His word abiding in us.

"He that abideth in Me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit; for apart from Me ye can do nothing." (John 15: 5).

"If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you." (John 15:7).

Spiritual growth will only come about if we are true disciples of the Lord.

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;" (John 8:31).


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Mike

 2017/8/16 14:17Profile
TakeUptheCross
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Joined: 2016/8/10
Posts: 242
Germany

 Re:

Thanks, bro Travis! I would have some follow-up questions but will probably post them later...

 2017/8/17 15:23Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3487
Louisiana

 Re:

Christianity may mean nothing more than a religious system. The Christian life may mean nothing more than an earnest and honest attempt to follow and imitate Christ. The Christ life is more than these and expresses our actual union with the Lord Jesus Christ. He is actually in us as the life and source of all our experience and work. This conception of the highest Christian life is at once simpler and more sublime than any other. We do not teach that the purpose of Christ's redemption is to restore us to Adamic perfection, for if we had it we should lose it tomorrow. Rather, it is to unite us with the second Adam, and to lift us up to a higher plane than our first parents ever knew. This is the only thing that can reconcile the warring elements of diverse schools of teaching with respect to Christian life. The Spirit of God will lead us to have no controversy respecting mere theories. Rather, we are simply to hold to the person and life of Jesus Christ Himself and the privilege of being united to Him through living in constant dependence upon His keeping power and grace.

A.B.Simpson


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Mike

 2017/8/17 16:59Profile









 Re:

This thread is wonderful! Thank you so much for all the scriptures and feedback. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have more discussions like this? To encourage, build up the body, edify.


Philippians 3: 4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. 16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.
*********************************************************************

Righteousness cannot come through the law, instead we count it loss so we may gain Christ, and come to the knowledge of Jesus. We are a work in progress....we have not attained nor have we been perfected, but we press on growing up into Jesus.

 2017/8/20 20:14
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3487
Louisiana

 Re:

"This thread is wonderful! Thank you so much for all the scriptures and feedback. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have more discussions like this? To encourage, build up the body, edify."

Amen Sister!

"But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin." (Hebrews 3:13).


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Mike

 2017/8/21 9:34Profile









 Re:

Romans 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have[a] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Hebrews 12: 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.


After reading the thread "Give them something to eat", it really made me ponder.
The Lord will allow a variety of trials, tribulations, storms, to enter our lives, whether it's through chastisement or just training us. It's through those storms that we trust Jesus by FAITH. We cannot grow and produce the peaceable fruit of righteousness without our faith being tried by fire.

 2017/8/23 10:39
TakeUptheCross
Member



Joined: 2016/8/10
Posts: 242
Germany

 Re:

 2017/8/23 15:27Profile





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