| False Teachers in our own Ranks|
From a question-and-answer session with Dr. John MacArthur at Liberty University.
Question by a student...
" My question is once a person takes the mark is there any possibility of him coming to Christ?"
Answer by Dr. John MacArthur
" The question is if you were living in the tribulation period and you take the mark, in other words you identify with the beast's empire, will you still be able to be redeemed?
And I think the answer to that is yes. Yes. Otherwise there would be no salvation of anybody in the end of the tribulation. And you've got to have the salvation of folks in the end of the tribulation. You're going to have the Jews redeemed. You're going to have, according to Revelation chapter 7, an innumerable number of gentiles redeemed. And they can't be counted across the face of the earth. So I don't think the fact that someone takes that is a sentence to permanence. "
••• Now these were born Noble minded than those in Thessalonica, but he received the word with great eagerness, Examining the Scriptures Daily to see whether these things were so. •••
••• Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” •••
It's not only the prosperity preachers and the other charlatans who teach error. But it is also the most noted, respected Bible teachers in our own midst. Just because they have a certain theological system and have letters behind their names does not make them exempt from teaching error. If anything this makes them more dangerous. Because we do not recognize them as wolves in sheep's clothing. We trust them because we think they handle the scriptures capably. But in so doing they can bring error in without us even knowing it.
Let us be wise and discerning in these end times.
| 2017/8/5 13:56|
| Re: False Teachers in our own Ranks|
Maybe he's not altogether a wolf in sheep's clothes just because he may be wrong on this issue. Wolves in the church maliciously prey on the innocent after knowingly beguiling them. Wrong as he may be on this issue and others I just don't see him as a wolf lying in wait to devour. That's all.
| 2017/8/5 19:37||Profile|
| Re: who's who... |
Just because a man espouses an erroneous eschatological view such as dispensationalism, doesn't make him a wolf by necessity.
If that were so, there are whole packs of them surrounding the camp of the saints. You'd be entertaining wolves often, and unaware of it.
Pray for the peace of all those who are jews inwardly by faith in the Messiah, Jesus. Amen.
| 2017/8/5 21:11||Profile|
East TN (for now)
| 2017/8/5 21:32||Profile|
| Re: False Teachers in our own Ranks|
I disagree with a lot of John MacArthur's eschatological view. I also disagree with things that other people on this forum have said--things that I believe are very plain in the scripture. Are they all wolves? Who here has perfect doctrinal understanding? Who in here has attained all there is to know in Christ through His Word. No one.
There are thing my pastor has said that I find very wrong--but he does bear fruit and he does love the brethren and he does follow Jesus. He is not a wolf but we do not see eye to eye.
What do you have that you have not received. Why do you boast as if you have not received it? Why are we holding people to a standard that you yourself have not attained. It makes no sense. Even prominent people in the faith still have things to learn.
Can we PLEASE stop all this nonsense and only speak that which is necessary for edification? I don't feel edified reading things like this. Only discouraged because we keep drawing dividing line over dividing line over dividing line.
Think of how much more we would grow in Christ if we did that. Think of how much more our hearts would be set on Christ if we did that. Would we not be far more prepped for revival and serving Christ if we did that?
| 2017/8/6 0:10||Profile|
| Re: Wolves|
Thanks for the message Lysa.
Its a good checkpoint to see if you have any wolf tendencies. We should check ourselves.
| 2017/8/6 0:59||Profile|
| Re: A Strange Hypocrisy |
I find there's a strange hypocrisy in this forum. If I had said in the original OP that Rick Warren or Rob Bell or Ken Copeland or Pope Francis had said one could take the mark during the tribulation and still be saved. Many in this forum would have denounced such teaching as false. And that such are false teachers. Even false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing.
But because I call out one of your own. A man I'm sure that many in this forum honor and respect. The standard suddenly becomes different. I'm the one accused of being divisive. I'm the one accused of attacking a teacher you respect. When all I am trying to do is simply be Berean. Simply trying to examine John MacArthur's teaching in light of scripture.
What Dr. John MacArthur is teaching is not a matter of secondary importance. This is not a matter of non-essentials. But this is a matter which could determine the destiny of one's soul.
Dr. John MacArthur has clearly answered that one can take the mark of the beast and be saved during the tribulation. This flies squarely in the face of scripture, Revelation 14:9-11. This is false teaching. This is heresy. This goes against what the historic church has believed and taught.
James tells us that the teacher will incur a stricter judgement. Doctor John MacArthur has widely influenced millions in this nation and around the world. Because there are those who believe we are in the end times. It would be quite easy for those to listen to Dr. MacArthur and say well it is alright to take the chip to survive and then I can repent at leisure and come to faith in Christ. This goes contrary to scriptures. We are warned what the consequences will be if one takes the mark and alligns themsrlves with Antichrist. For the mark will be a sign of loyalty to the Antichrist and ultimately to Satan. The consequences for those who take the mark will be the lake of fire.
At this point I must ask does anybody in the Forum believe this? Perhaps there are those in the forum who would agree with Dr. MacArthur that one can take the mark and still be saved. After all he has a doctorate behind his name. He has been to seminary. He is a Bible teacher and president of Master's Seminary. Thus he can be trusted. But to do so will bring condemnation to one's soul.
Some in this forum think I have a vendetta against Dr. John MacArthur because of my experiences with Calvinism. That is not correct. I only look at Dr. MacArthur because he is one of the foremost Bible teachers in America. Many look up to him. Many believe him to be infallible in his Doctrine. At one time I believed him to be infallible.
But if Dr. MacArthur is teaching error regarding the taking of the mark. What else is he teaching error on? The scriptures tell us that a little leaven leavens the whole loaf. People such as Rick Warren and Rob Bell have embraced erroneous teaching. Eventually the false teaching spread into the ministry of these men. Thus they were rendered ineffective in the kingdom.
At least John MacArthur has been up front where he stands regarding the taking of the mark. But I wonder how many other pastors secretly believe that one can take the mark and still be redeemed during the tribulation. It would not surprise me if there were pastors that came out of Master's Seminary who believe what Dr. John MacArthur believes. And eventually will espouse this to their churches.
As I said in the OP it is easy to call out the hucksters and the charlatans among the charismaniacs. When we see the Kundalini Spirit and the clucking of chickens and the dog howling and the demonic laughter manifested in so called spirit-filled meetings we know there is something false here. One would heartily amen Dr. MacArthur and calling out the extreme charismatics.
But when Dr. MacArthur is teaching doctrine that is erroneous and false. When he is questioned in this forum. He is exempt. He can do no wrong. To call him out is divisive. Such is the strange hypocrisy in this forum.
Forum you say this is not edifying to read this. But I believe there are some of you who believe we are in the end times. Satan will increasingly bring about deception. We are warned in the gospels that he will try to deceive even the elect. And he will try to deceive the elect by having trusted noted Bible teachers espouse erroneous doctrine. Bible teachers that can be trusted because they have letters behind their name. Bible teachers that can be trusted because they hold to an orthodox theological system. Bible teachers that can be trusted because they have thousands of members in their church. Bible teachers that can be trusted because they lead seminaries that put out evangelical pastors.
Thus when one of these Bible teacher says that one can take the mark and be saved in the tribulation. Then it stands to reason he must know what he's talking about because he knows the Bible.
Forum beware of the false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing. These are dark times of deception that cry for discernment. Let us have the mind of Christ and examine everything in light of His word. Even if the Bible teacher has letters behind their name. Even if the Bible teacher is Dr. John MacArthur.
| 2017/8/6 8:37|
| Re: |
Quote: This is why my only shepherd is Jesus Christ, I've never disagreed with him on anything, nor has he ever been wrong yet. :-)
havok20x....There are things my pastor has said that I find very wrong--but he does bear fruit and he does love the brethren and he does follow Jesus. He is not a wolf but we do not see eye to eye.
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons"
| 2017/8/6 11:06||Profile|
| Re: |
Most people here who have objected a bit to labeling Dr. MacArthur as a wolf in sheep's clothing have also said that there are points that they disagree with him on. So Dr. MacArthur is not bring handed a blank check of approval. Posting and forcefully saying things like the American church has forfeited its right to heaven because they voted for Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton is not sound either as far as correct doctrine versus error goes. Dr. MacArthur, not being given a blank check, never had said anything along those preposterous lines. How one is saved is not something of secondary importance either. So we all perhaps need to pay closer attention to what we say or teach. If a person is wrong on certain points we still don't need to see them after the flesh.
Peace. No need to build a fire here.
| 2017/8/6 12:12||Profile|
| Re: False Teachers in our own Ranks|
As an aside
Do you still have my email address? Can you write to me? You no longer have your email under your profile.
Got a question about AR.
| 2017/8/6 13:23||Profile|