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 Bush Talks About Faith at Prayer Breakfasts

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WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush has never been shy about talking about his faith, and he has been getting more opportunities with the increasing popularity of prayer breakfasts.

Bush doesn't typically lead the worship at these events, but speaks easily of his faith and humbly of his place before God. ``Through fellowship and prayer, we acknowledge that all power is temporary, and must ultimately answer to his purposes,'' Bush said at the National Prayer Breakfast in February.

In the past six weeks, Bush has been the main attraction at three prayer events. He hosted the National Day of Prayer at the White House, attended the National Catholic Prayer Breakfast and on Thursday spoke at the National Hispanic Prayer Breakfast.

Bush also has issued three presidential proclamations in the past year declaring national days of prayer. One marked the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks and another on Memorial Day. Then there was the first Thursday in May, which has been the official National Day of Prayer since President Reagan signed it into law in 1988.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/6/17 16:54Profile
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 Re: Bush Talks About Faith at Prayer Breakfasts

One thing is for sure. He likes to pray with Muslims (see post-911 prayer service at the national cathedral). He believes that he has the same god that the Muslims have. Here's proof:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=193746&page=1

RT

 2005/6/18 19:38Profile
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 Re:

Quote:

ReceivedText wrote:
One thing is for sure. He likes to pray with Muslims (see post-911 prayer service at the national cathedral). He believes that he has the same god that the Muslims have. Here's proof:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=193746&page=1

RT


Hi Received...!

Thanks for the link.

Actually, the article (or the post 9/11 circumstances) didn't say that President Bush [i]likes[/i] to pray with Muslims. Nor do I know the circumstances concerning those instances in which you speak. I have heard President Bush say that he believed in "secret closet prayer." Indeed, I've also watched several well-respected christian leaders who are very vocal opponents to Islam who have prayed in a room where Muslim clerics were present and also praying. They made the most of the situation that they were in (which may or may not have been out of their control).

And it might not be too wise to judge the President's beliefs by a single public statement that he supposedly made in an impromptu interview with the secular media. The media is good at misquoting both the President (and Christians). And remember, President Bush is not known as a clear, strong orator -- including statements about of his personal beliefs. He has made some strong statements about Islam in the past, which drew quite a bit of criticism from the national media (as well as Muslims).

I also believe that in this particular interview, the President may have meant that Muslims pray to the same reference of "God" (historically, Muslims claim to pray to the God of Abraham, and Allah is the only word for "God" in the arabic language). Of course, we know that the "God" to whom they pray is not the real Lord of Creation -- or else they do not pray properly. This is no different from those who claim to "pray" in Christian denominations that pray even with the name of God...or Jesus...or Jehovah, etc. The fact that they pray using this name does not translate to actual "prayer."

There are several testimonies published about Muslims who came to Christ -- by praying sincere prayers to God, asking that He reveal the Truth to them. This is also true of people from all sorts of religions and denominations. Keith Green, whose messages are found on this board, prayed in the name of "Jesus" for quite a while before actually meeting Christ.

[b]A Testimony about the Tarahumara...[/b]

I have traveled deep into the mountains of the Sierra Madre Occidental in Chihuahua, Mexico. I went there with missionaries from the United States, along with pastors in Mexico, in order to perform evangelistic work among indigenous Tarahumara tribes. The Tarahumara are known as one of the last two "unreached" peoples groups in the world. There are between 80,000 to 120,000 of them living in the rugged, forest-covered mountains of southwestern Chihuahua. These are the tribes that are well-known for their magnificant running ability. Many of the tribes have never heard spanish (let alone English). The "villages" that we stayed in were actually a series of small log huts, along with many who still lived in caves. There is no electricity, no books, no modern amenities, and hardly any Christians. The people are predominantly animalists -- believing in multitudes of spirits (in the trees, in the clouds, in the water, in each star, etc...).

There was a pastor there (named Alfriedo) who told us his testimony. Years earlier, he became very ill, and ran for seven days to the closest Mexican village. There was a clinic in the village where a doctor could speak Tarahumara. The doctor told Alfriedo the bad news -- he had contracted a fatal disease (I don't remember if it was tuberculosis or not). The doctor told Alfriedo that the disease had progressed to the point that he would not survive. The only question, according to the doctor, was whether or not Alfriedo wanted to die in the clinic or back at home. Alfriedo decided to go home.

One night, Alfriedo sat outside his cave back in the tribal community's "village." As he looked up to the sky, it dawned on him that perhaps one god (maybe the "sun god") could have created [u]everything[/u]. He began to speak to this "god," telling him of his desire to know him. After praying this, Alfriedo heard a voice speak to him: "I am the God who created all there is. If I heal you, will you serve me?" Alfriedo did not know if this voice was audible or if it was inside of him. However, the voice was powerful and very clear. Alfriedo told him, "Yes. I will serve you. I will give my life to you."

Alfriedo began gaining his strength. He began a relationship with the Lord, and began spending much time in prayer. As he would pray, the Lord would "speak" to Alfriedo and tell him things that he needed to know. Alfriedo eventually led his brother to the Lord, and soon after that, another brother's wife. They began having worship services under a tree several times a week, sharing what they were learning through prayer with God.

One day, the Lord told Alfriedo that he needed to learn the language of the town people. So Alfriedo ran to the village (a seven-day run). He began walking around the village and listening to conversations in spanish. Within a short period of time (and by what Alfriedo calls a miracle), he learned spanish. After subsequent trips to the village, he learned to read and write in spanish. One day, he was given a Bible by a man passing them out on the streets. To his astonishment, Alfriedo learned that alot of what God was speaking to him was written in the Bible!

Eventually, a group of missionaries (by miraculous intervention) found Alfriedo and helped to build a log-cabin type of sanctuary. The first time I went to the village (as a teen), there were less than 30 believers. Over the next couple of years, the congregation grew to over 700.

Thus, I do believe that it is possible that people who call on the name of the "Lord" (whether they have known him or not) can find him -- if they cry out to Him in sincerity. I hope that this is what the President meant.

President Bush, like everyone else, is not perfect. In fact, I don't know where I stand concerning the war in Iraq. I see alot of good resulting from it, but at a terrible cost of lives -- both Iraqi and American (my uncle was injured there over a year ago, losing two of his best friends in the same attack). Regardless, I do rejoice in the fact that the United States has a President who stands against some other terrible blatant moral deficiencies in society -- even though his stance is not popular with liberals or the secular media. I can not judge where he stands with God. However, I do rejoice in that he publically professes that he was born-again a few years before becoming the Governor of Texas.

I know that the topic of politics is quite controversial -- especially among believers. I do hope for the best, though. I also realize that God is neither a Democrat or Republican. In fact, I like to remember the story of the angel in Joshua:

[b]"And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, [i]Art thou for us, or for our adversaries[/i]?

And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come."[/b]-Joshua 5:13-14

:-)


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Christopher

 2005/6/19 0:45Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
"And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?

And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come."-Joshua 5:13-14



Heavy duty ccchhhrrriiisss! How timely is this scripture for America.

This rightwing-leftwing triumphalism in the American church is clouding our minds and hearts. Two belief schemes call each other to repent, yet each is incapable of repentance for fear of losing power. Can we American Christians, bred from many successive empires, even remember what it was like to be pilgrims in a strange land?

I have a sad but peaceful heart as I watch the splendors of Western Christendom fading like that last precious moment of a sunset. Tomorrow, we are ancient pilgrims again. Still, we can trust that the Captain of the Lord of Hosts, ever before us with the sword of the Word of God, will do what's best for the Church.

And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and bowed down, and said to him, “What has my lord to say to his servant?”

MC


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Mike Compton

 2005/6/19 2:59Profile
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 Re: Something to Consider

Quote:

Compton wrote:
This rightwing-leftwing triumphalism in the American church is clouding our minds and hearts. Two belief schemes call each other to repent, yet each is incapable of repentance for fear of losing power. Can we American Christians, bred from many successive empires, even remember what it was like to be pilgrims in a strange land?

I say this hoping that in will not be misconstrued by the folk here. I have noticed that there is a strong belief that America is a Christian nation, and that the Republicans hold out for traditional values of the bible. From an outside perspective and coming from a nation which also professes a 75% christian majority there is no such thing as a christian nation. I will be as bold as to say that America never was one, sure the bible guided some of its laws, but if it was a christian nation you would never had the civil war or the revivals that swept certain sections of that nation. My nation which has a strong religious background justified apartheid from the bible, I can assure you that some of those men were very devout in their belief.

We are pilgrims passing through and even if they had to outlaw christianity would'nt we be right back where we started. So we pray that we will live peacable lives with all godliness, but we certainly can't complain when the world system acts against the kingdom of our lord and of his Christ. Can a leopard change its spots?

I have said it before on here, you have a president who seems to have a good moral compass, but he is also a president of a varied people. Let me put this to you, do I condemn a person because they choose to be homosexual or people who are involved in same sex marriages? Do I as a person deny them the right that people in hetrosexual marraiges are afforded? I know there has been a continual debate about medicare and benefits about these issues.

Surely as the leader of a nation which does'nt have christians in I can't force then to believe what I believe even though I may not condone or even approve of there behaviour. That is their life choice and until God comes and changes them that is their reality.

This was not written to provoke but to give a outside perspective on what you are witnessing. I would also hasten add, that our prayers may be directed in the right direction.


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/6/19 5:11Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
I have noticed that there is a strong belief that America is a Christian nation, and that the Republicans hold out for traditional values of the bible.



Curious...is that what was conveyed by my little post? Did I seem to say that? :-o

MC


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Mike Compton

 2005/6/19 8:20Profile
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 Re:

Quote:

Compton wrote:
Curious...is that what was conveyed by my little post? Did I seem to say that?

No, more directed at RT. If you wanted some History on what I am saying check out the forum topics around the time of your General Election last year. It was an interesting time. :beard:


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/6/19 9:23Profile
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 Re: Perspective!

Outstanding brothers.

Of great interest and observance to me is how threads have the ability to cut across other postings and give light to them. Case in point here, especially regarding the perennial question; [i]"What about those who have [u]never heard[/u][/i]"? This that Chris brought about not only is just a fantastic testimony, but very much what I believe Paul was getting at in Romans (also up in discussion of late), it brought to mind as well this message:

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=117]Calling On The Name Of The Lord[/url] (audio)

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=6035] Calling On The Name Of The Lord (video)[/url] [i]by Jim Cymbala[/i]

MC also,:

Quote:
This rightwing-leftwing triumphalism in the American church is clouding our minds and hearts. Two belief schemes call each other to repent, yet each is incapable of repentance for fear of losing power. Can we American Christians, bred from many successive empires, even remember what it was like to be pilgrims in a strange land?


Couldn't agree more brother. It makes things even more muddy and problematic especially in this setting bringing about an air of divisiveness. Don't think that necessitates off putting it, but if it could be recalled recently the article from Philologo's regarding the "two camps" syndrome (for lack of a better definition). It too easily becomes a we/they construct and this goofy perception that God is favoring one party over the other.

Without getting too bogged down in all the rhetoric just to back up a moment and consider the perplexities of the [i]role[/i] of the President in a Nation such as ours... My thoughts drift naturally toward the Kings in the Old Testament and that's neither here nor there. But just as MC pointed out, we are pilgrims not politicians in that sense, look where all this governmental intrusion has gotten us, from Rome on down. As much as Protestant thinking has attempted to withdraw out of these quasi political/religious systems there are those that want to do just the opposite...Sigh.

Surely there is much heritage to consider, the laws this country was built on, how far we have drifted from those early days and perhaps it's with a very pessimistic outlook that it is far past midnight to reverse where we now find ourselves. With freedom comes much responsibility and it has been squandered, to the point now where the ideals first set out have been over run by the extremes to which have overtaken this country.

At the root we have forgotten God and in His place erected a facsimile, something other than who He in fact is. Am just as appalled at the shenanigans of the "right" and their supporters who might have an edge in leaning towards biblical truth but it tends to go right out the window with the hypocrisy and duplicity, the exalting of one sin above the rest and making that [i]the[/i] issue, forgetting the poor, the widow, the homeless...

Find it strange that many a Christian would think that politics is going to fix our problem, that of a corrupt heart. Even much of our modern day Christianity hasn't figured this out, giving the masses a new coat instead of telling of a new [i]nature[/i]. And frightening to think there is an ideal that we Christan's are supposed to develop the Kingdom 'by force' somehow when we have been promised the very opposite, that we would be hated, despised... well "[i]not in America[/i]".

Which leads right into ZekeO's comments. As far as it concerns us here to keep in mind that this is not the only country represented, seems a bit odd that we rarely hear of the politics of the other nations, why is it that Christians there seemingly never bring this up amongst us? Only state that because it seems that American Christianity has become some kind of weird self entity bent on it's own self-help, prosperity, 'what's in it for me', seeker [i]sensitive(?)[/i], entertainment driven commercial product to be consumed and used like everything else that just doesn't jive with the rest of the worlds believers (not to mention the scriptures themselves). At best it will give a sympathetic nod towards those being persecuted for their faith, but does it really care? It's concerns are more towards whether to tithe or speak in tongues or which great 'prophet' is next up on the podium to give his vision\version of what God is doing.

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: On top of all that, politics, [i]our[/i] politics.

Even those that would be opposed to all the nonsense being generated in this purpose driven marketing arena, has politics ever driven the Lords purpose to any fruitful expression? Perhaps I am overlooking something, but it seems that the only time in our short history that any real reversal of conduct and true turning to God was by means of revival, to think that we, unaided by the Holy Spirit can accomplish an end around somehow by program, politics or our so called intellect... doesn't seem to be working.

None of it is all that easy surely, but a President and a preacher are not the same thing. It is very difficult to pass judgment in this way and think it is well to consider the thoughts expressed here in regards to the origins of this post. Apologize for the length and breadth, hope only to try and keep some perspective in this realm, that which I believe others have done well here.


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Mike Balog

 2005/6/19 9:34Profile
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 Gee Mike

Are you sure you don't write books? :-D That was quite something.


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/6/19 9:47Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Find it strange that many a Christian would think that politics is going to fix our problem, that of a corrupt heart. Even much of our modern day Christianity hasn't figured this out, giving the masses a new coat instead of telling of a new nature.



This is well said, sir. You hit the nail on the head.

O, for the day when we will see the corrupt nature of democrat and republican thinking alike and see ourselves and our nation in the eyes of our Creator and His laws!

Until the day in which Christ shall reign, let us pray for peace yes. But human liberty is an open door for free gospel preaching. How ironic it is that so much is acomplished where there is little human liberty.

Whether by many or by few, our God is able to save. He is still the God of Gideon's army. He is still the God of Daniel in a Lion's den, and the God of Elijah on Mount Carmel.

I believe in this time of inevitable violent persecution, we will see the power of God displayed if only we will believe.

If only we would seek God when things go well! :-(

You and I can. Let's take the opportunity.

RT

 2005/6/22 3:34Profile





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