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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Did Moses See God?

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TiltedHalo
Member



Joined: 2005/7/18
Posts: 57
Brooklyn, USA

 Re:

Hey Brother =),

In reply to your post ...

1. Yes Moses was still a very healthy man. His death was caused due to the fact that He disobeyed God when rendering water from a rock. (Numbers 20:12) God promised Aaron & Moses that they would not see the promised land. How? Now that could be as easy as it is for God to pull the plug on someones lift & just stop their heartbeat. Furthermore, I cannot imagine how easy it is for God to dismiss a life. But that's another issue. =)

2.Correct, He did hide him for the fact that the Israelists would have probably worshipped him for the miracles that he performed with the power of God's very own hand.

3.The reason is known. Satan & Michael battled over Moses' body because Satan would have resurrected Moses & the nation would have worshipped him as God.

4.Again, "face to face" means as you and I would speak, voice to voice. I believe this is clearer in it's original text. As in "friend to friend", I believe is a better translation to that.

5. SURE WAS! lol

Ah, & I continued to read your reply and I see you've answered your own questions. lol.

Fridolin Stier, an Old Testament scholar once said, "That is the apex, the ultimate, the extreme allowed to any theology, any philosophy and any scholarship: the back of God - provided they really desire to see His face."

Mercy Me- Homesick ...awesome song.. it is exactly what you, I & I pray millions of other children of the Living God feel.

Bless you Brother
In His Name


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Arnaldo Santiago, Jnr.

 2005/7/24 16:06Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
3.The reason is known. Satan & Michael battled over Moses' body because Satan would have resurrected Moses & the nation would have worshipped him as God.


this is just guesswork and has no basis in the scripture. I think your No. 2 suggestion is much more likely.

Quote:
4.Again, "face to face" means as you and I would speak, voice to voice. I believe this is clearer in it's original text. As in "friend to friend", I believe is a better translation to that.

the Hebrew phrase is used in
Gen. 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Ex. 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
Num. 14:14 And they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land: for they have heard that thou LORD art among this people, that thou LORD art seen face to face, and that thy cloud standeth over them, and that thou goest before them, by day time in a pillar of a cloud, and in a pillar of fire by night.
Deut. 5:4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
Deut. 34:10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,
Judg. 6:22 And when Gideon perceived that he was an angel of the LORD, Gideon said, Alas, O Lord GOD! for because I have seen an angel of the LORD face to face.
Ezek. 20:35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
and is paniym, paneh, which just means 'face to face'. The words are used as a preposition constantly in the OT. Whenever it says 'before' or 'in the presence' of, it is most likely to be paniym. According to my computer programme it is used 1338 times in the OT as the preposition for 'before'. The word 'paniym' in all its different ways is used 2125 times in the OT!


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Ron Bailey

 2005/7/24 16:45Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
God had already said that men would live to only 120, (Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.) so Moses may have known that his time was near.

Once they were at the viewpoint, and Moses had seen across to the land, I suggest, he found somewhere comfortable to lie down, and fell asleep. Simple as that.


I am not sure that the 120 years is applicable to all men from that time, but I think the strong impression from the last glimpse we have of Moses is that he was very vigorous.
“And Moses [is] a son of a hundred and twenty years when he dieth; his eye hath not become dim, nor hath his moisture fled.” (Deut. 34:7, YNG) The word translated 'moisture' here is linked to a word meaning fresh or undried; Gen. 30:37; Num. 6:3; Deut. 34:7; Judg. 16:7-8; Ezek. 17:24; 20:47

I don't know whether it is being used figuratively or literally of Moses, but the impression is of virility and life rather than an old man ready to lie down for his last sleep. We need to remember too that the 'exodus' generation were the recipients of some extraordinary blessings;Deut. 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.

Psa. 105:37 He brought them forth also with silver and gold: and there was not one feeble person among their tribes. It might appear from this that all the hundreds of thousands who died in the wilderness did not die of 'natural causes' but as a result of God's timed executions?


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Ron Bailey

 2005/7/24 17:24Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

Quote:
It might appear from this that all the hundreds of thousands who died in the wilderness did not die of 'natural causes' but as a result of God's timed executions?



Wow. That is kinda fearful, especially in light of the statement on how shall we escape.... who have recieved.....


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D.Miller

 2005/7/24 20:30Profile
TiltedHalo
Member



Joined: 2005/7/18
Posts: 57
Brooklyn, USA

 Re:

"3.The reason is known. Satan & Michael battled over Moses' body because Satan would have resurrected Moses & the nation would have worshipped him as God.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

this is just guesswork and has no basis in the scripture."

You are totally right. I should have worded that a WHOLE lot better. Thanks =)


_________________
Arnaldo Santiago, Jnr.

 2005/7/25 0:09Profile





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