| Re: |
Travis, Mike, and Esther, thank you for sharing your testimonies! They are so encouraging and make us rejoice with you. Jesus is SO WORTHY! We are lost without the infilling of the precious Holy Spirit. I'm so thankful Jesus died to save us from our sins and gave such a wonderful gift, His Holy Spirit, to lead and guide us into all truth. Praise the name of Jesus!
| 2017/7/27 13:41|
| Re: |
You guys are talking about Mcarthur and ceasonists never understood
the basic problem. What happened the first time when the Holy Spirit
came has nothing to do with us looking for an extra babtism.
ALL are already babtised in the Holy Spirit, wheter they realize it or not,
there is no believer without, all can have gifts as decribed
now already, without anything extra required.
Some people realize that at conversion, others 10 years later, that
is a completely different issue. Unfortunately some people that
had strong experiences like the latter started their own denomination
to teach an additional babtism, and millions followed.
One of the books that helped me to understand where the basic
misunderstanding lies is this one:
Holiness: The False And The True
By Harry A. Ironside
"How necessary it is then to search the Scriptures, and to obey them
unquestioningly, in order that we may be sanctified by the truth! Yet
what indifference is often found among professors of a "second
blessing" as to this very thing! What ignorance of the Scriptures, and
what fancied superiority to them, is frequently manifested!—and that
coupled with a profession of holiness in the flesh!"
great book about personal holiness/second blessing experiences
and related doctrinal study
Sooner or later everyone should try to understand the Bible without
relying on domination colored explainer books. People are pre-tribbers
because they only read books by pre-tribbers. The same with charismatics
and pentecostals. Read some books by reformed writers, if you can
stand the heat at least they understand the bible on that point the way
it should be understood.
Interesting also the German "evangelische Kirche" on that. They rejected
Pentecostalism for about 60-65 years in the 1900's as "not of God".
In the 60's or 70's they caved into public demand. I read an interesting
book about the beginnings of the movment where they actually did the
right thing an asked many of the "tongues-spirits" who they are and
where they come from. I never seen anyone in the english speaking
world do that, that was a revealing and a bit shocking read.
Personally I'm not a ceasonist by any means, I've seen many complete
wonders only God can do (out of human reach) - but none happened
in a charismatic/pentecostal environment. Their signs and wonders
are of a different quality, almost like a bad imitation.
| 2017/7/27 22:09||Profile|
| Baptism with the Holy Spirit|
I will start a new thread to discuss the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
| 2017/7/28 4:17||Profile|
| Re: Baptism with the Holy Spirit|
••• Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"•••
I narvel at the simplicity of the verses that Jesus gives above. If a child comes and asks his father for a fish or an egg, that father will not give him a snake or a scorpion in return will he?
Jesus teaches that apparent even with an evil nature will give what is good to their children. How much more will the Father who is good and holy in heaven will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him.
But the key is childlike faith. The key is childlike trust. just as a child would trust a loving parent to give him a fish or an egg or even a cup of water when he is thirsty and hungry. How much more will God give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him and simple trust?
| 2017/7/28 5:47|
| Re: |
•••Read some books by reformed writers, if you can
stand the heat at least they understand the bible on that point the way it should be understood.•••
Respectfully it is a reformers who deny the reality of the Holy Spirit. Much of reformed writing is centered in the law. The New Testament teaches that law and Spirit do not mix.
Paul writes in Romans 7:6,
••• But now we have been released from the law, having died to that by which we were found, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in olness up the letter.•••
Those in Reformed Calvinism do not understand the above verse. They see that their life is rooted in the five canons of Dort. They see that their life is rooted in what we call the Five Points of Calvinism. Calvinism is devoid of the Holy Spirit. Those in the Reformed tradition do not acknowledge the ministry of the Spirit nor do they submit to His life. That is why people such as John MacArthur and others who follow him deny the reality of the Holy Spirit. In essence they deny the life of Christ that would come through hearts that are yielded to him.
I might add that I'm writing as one who used to be a staunch five-point Calvinist. I would defend the reformed Faith with my dying breath. Whereas once I had the life of Jesus having come out of the Jesus movement. The life of the Spirit was killed in me when I embraced the deadness of Calvinism. Calbinistic theology puffed-up my mind. But it did very little to my dead heart.
It took me years to rediscover and to go back to my first love of Jesus. It was only through being baptized with the Holy Spirit in the mid-nineties that I was able to get back to my first love of Jesus. That and forsake the deadness of Calvinism. The best advice I could give to anybody in this forum is stay away from Calvinistic theology. You will not find the Holy Spirit there.
If anyone truly desires the the baptism of the Holy Spirit than simply ask God. According to his promise out of Luke 11:13 He will give it. Jesus said blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness for they will be satsfied. God will truly satisfy the hungry soul who comes to Him broken and ask with a simple trusting heart to receive the Holy Spirit.
If one has been baptized in the Holy Spirit than it is essential to keep filled with the Holy Spirit on a continual basis. Again the promise is anyone who ask of the Holy Spirit God will give it. All it requires is an empty and trusting heart to receive from Him with God will graciously give to those who ask Him.
| 2017/7/28 6:02|
| Re: |
Here you go again Blaine, misrepresenting believers.
I am in no way a Calvinist, or of the reformed theology. Nor am I a cessasionist. I believe in the continuance of the gifts to the church today.
However what you say about our reformed brethren, being devoid of the Holy Spirit and under law is just slanderous.
Would you call Tim Conway, Paul Washer, John Piper and those like them devoid of the Holy Spirit??
You are eaten up with angst against John MacArthur and this is causing you to swing to a worst extreme than him in your effort to demonize him and anyone who remotely has association with reformed theology.
| 2017/7/28 6:47||Profile|
| Re: eaten up with angst |
A few others devoid of the Holy Spirit in the gargle according to Blaine -
Arthur W. Pink: 1886-1952 (Bible teacher and theologian)
Augustus Toplady: 1740-1778 (author of “Rock Of Ages” and other hymns)
Benjamin Keach: 1640-1704 (primary author of the 1689 Baptist Confession)
B.H. Carroll: 1843-1914 (founder South Western Theological Seminary)
Charles Spurgeon: 1834-1892 (famous Baptist preacher)
Francis Schaeffer: 1912-1984 (author of “How Shall We Then Live” video series)
George Mueller: 1805-1898 (Christian evangelist and orphanage director)
George Whitefield:1714-1770 (evangelist & preacher)
J.C. Ryle: 1816-1900 (writer, pastor, evangelical preacher)
J.P. Boyce: 1827-1888 ( founder Southern Baptist Theological Seminary)
John Bunyan: 1628-1688 (author of Pilgrim’s Progress)
John Calvin: 1509-1564 (preacher & Bible scholar)
John L. Dagg: 1794-1884 (Baptist theologian)
John Foxe: 1516-1587 (author of Foxe’s Book Of Martyrs)
John Gill: 1697-1771 (renowned theologian and Bible commentator)
John Knox: 1513-1572 (founder of Presbyterianism)
John Newton: 1725-1807 (wrote the hymn “Amazing Grace”)
John Owen: 1616-1683 (theologian and author)
Jonathan Edwards: 1703-1758 (evangelist, preacher, author)
Martyn Lloyd-Jones: 1834-1892 (pastor and theologian)
Martin Luther: 1483-1546 (Protestant Reformer)
Matthew Henry: 1662-1712 (famous Bible commentator)
Roger Williams: 1603-1683 (founded the first Baptist church in America)
William Carey: 1761-1834 (missionary)
William Wilberforce: 1759-1833 (slavery abolitionist)
And the list goes on...
| 2017/7/28 7:55||Profile|
| Re: A few others devoid of the Holy Spirit in the gargle according to Blaine - |
"A few others devoid of the Holy Spirit in the gargle according to Blaine - "
Give me fellowship with any of these over the likes of Copeland, Engle, Hinn, Arnott, and all those crazy self professed 'Holy Ghost led' men!
Now it would be good to discuss sensibly the role and gifts of the Holy Spirit in the church today...maybe on the other thread that was started.
| 2017/7/28 8:11||Profile|
Johannesburg, South Africa
| Re: |
I think this is a bit unfair, since Blaine does not know these men and neither do you.
We can only judge those that speak and act today as representatives of Christ's church.
Perhaps it is born from a reaction against the excesses of men such as those whom Dave mentions, but men such as McArthur do deny a whole lot of verses concerned with the Holy Spirit...
These men can teach the bible and bring reasonable arguments for certain doctrines etc, however there will always be a dimension of anointing missing, I believe.
| 2017/7/28 8:20||Profile|
| Re: |
quote: "I think this is a bit unfair, since Blaine does not know these men and neither do you."
William, It's not unfair at all. We have the testimony of most of these men what God did in and through them.
What is a more than 'a bit unfair' is Blaine labeling all these and others as devoid of the Spirit!
As I said, he seems so taken over by rage against MacArthur that he has lost all sense of reality.
| 2017/7/28 9:04||Profile|