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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Gifts of the Spirit

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AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3366
Louisiana

 Re:

"Pentecostals do the same in a different way, instead of going with Bible doctrine,"

"That's why the call themselves Pentecostals,
and not Christian. It's 'christian Plus something extra'."


Brother,

You are completely off base and not in line with the teachings in scripture concerning the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Pentecostals didn't come up with the doctrine of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Jesus did!

Every Pentecostal that I know refers to themselves as being a Christian. And by Pentecostal, I am not referring to a denomination, I am talking about one that has received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, just as the believers did in the upper room on the day of Pentecost. I am a Christian first, but I am not ashamed to be called a Pentecostal, because I have received the Pentecostal experience of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

These are the words of Jesus:
"And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." (Luke 24:49).

"But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
(Acts 1:8).

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit that the disciples of Jesus received on the day of Pentecost is for believers today. It is true that a person can be saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit through the new birth without experiencing the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

John the Baptist said this about Jesus:
"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." (Matthew 3:11). It is none other than Jesus Christ that is baptizing those in the Holy Spirit that are thirsty, and ask for this free gift, and that receive it by faith.

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17). A born again person is in Christ and is a member of the Body of Christ, and has the Spirit of God abiding within him, but this is not the same thing as being baptized in the Holy Spirit. There are many saved people, that have never been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

The Apostle Paul found believers, disciples of Jesus that had not yet been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

"And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
(Acts 19:1-6).

There are Cessationists in the Church today that follow the teachings of John MacArthur. They are being robbed out of this wonderful experience of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Since the day of Pentecost millions of believers throughout the world have received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, many of them speaking in tongues and exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit.


_________________
Mike

 2017/7/27 0:16Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1962
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Pentecostals do the same in a different way, instead of going with Bible doctrine,
it seems kind of "spiritual" to tap into the history side and declare "let's do this
every day", and of course it should be Pentecost all the time, would'nt that
what we really want?....or is it simply a childish way to misunderstand everything?



When I was eight years old I was born again. I remember the strong conviction of the Holy Spirit in my heart, and I remember the wonderful sense of cleanness that washed over me. I knew the exact moment that the transaction took place and my spirit was reborn. I felt totally pure and holy in a moment of time. I remember experiencing an abiding presence of God in my life from that moment on.

When I was 18, I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I remember being filled with such an overflowing presence of God. I tell you, I was lost in Him. I remember the joy and presence of God that filled me and overflowed. I desired so much to worship Him, but my own words were so inadequate. I began to praise Him in another language, one I did not understand. I then began to sing to Him a song I did not know nor understand. A young lady who was also seeking God that night began to sing as well and for a time we sang in perfect unison the same melody and words in another language. After that experience I not only felt the abiding presence of God, but I was indued with the power of God in a way that I had never experienced before.

I tell this testimony for a reason. I was raised in the very roots of 20th century pentecost. I grew up at the feet of the men and women who walked with and ministered with Parham. With all due respect, and I really mean that, I believe you have a very skewed view of pentecost and what pentecostal's believe.

Bro. Mike listed several scriptural references that demonstrate the baptism of the Holy Spirit as separate from and subsequent to conversion. The best way I have to describe this is that when we are born again there is an abiding presence of the Holy Spirit. But, when we receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, we are indued with power by the Holy Spirit. One is the regeneration of our spirit by the Holy Spirit, the other is an indwelling of our entire life and being by the Holy Spirit. One is a baptism of repentance which brings about reconciliation or renewal of right relationship while the other is a baptism in fire (there is one coming after me who will baptize you with the Holy Ghose and fire) that brings about the power of God in and through us. (See Paul's explanation of this in 1 Cor. 2)

At Cain Ridge in the early 1800's, the Methodists experienced this and called this the second blessing. I have read the first hand accounts of people who were there (my copy of the book is well over 150 years old now) and they experienced the same manifestations that you might associate with pentecostals today. The same happened in the early 1900's at Parham's school in Topeka, KS.

I think we run into problems when we don't understand where someone is coming from. A few years back I went to a marriage conference in Arkansas that was hosted by a very strict, holiness baptist man. A couple who went with me asked him if he had ever attended a pentecostal church that we knew well that was located right down the road from his camp. He said yes, and that he loved the people, knew they were godly people, but that the whole speaking in tongues thing made him uncomfortable. You know, I saw a demonstration of the presence of God in this man's life that was amazing. Yet the doctrines that he had been taught kept him from receiving something that I believe God wanted him to have very badly. It did not mean that he was not holy, not righteous, and not anointed of God. He absolutely was, in a great way. It just meant that he was, in my opinion, missing out on an induement of power by the Holy Ghost that could have taken his ability to minister to another level entirely.

I pray in tongues on a daily basis. I find, just a scripture tells me it will, that is is a source of edification to me. I am occasionally used in gifts of the Spirit. I hear God speak to me in my spirit clearly, and on a daily basis. Does not make me super spiritual, and it does not make me feel spiritual. If what I am doing is about making me feel spiritual, then I am way off and out in left field. It simply gives me strength and power that is beyond my own natural ability. It is the induement of His power that He promised before He ascended to the Father.


_________________
Travis

 2017/7/27 9:11Profile
StirItUp
Member



Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 941
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

Thanks bro's Travis and Mike for reminding us what it is all about.

I pray that many brothers and sisters reading will be stirred to seek, ask and knock until they also receive this enduement from on high!

How else will we be the witnesses He has called us to be?

Have you noticed that from the camp of cessationist preachers like John McArthur etc come never a testimony of people set free from demonic possession, healed through laying on of hands or anything else that could not be done without the power of the Holy Spirit.
One wonders what kind of gospel they are really preaching and how powerless the Jesus is whom they declare.
What kind of missionaries do they send out?
How are they convincing people to believe? Merely with words?

These men will have a lot of explaining to do, offering a Jesus Who saves and gives eternal life, but no power for doing the kingdom's work

Blessings,





_________________
William

 2017/7/27 9:38Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3366
Louisiana

 Re:

Thank you Brother Travis for sharing your wonderful testimony, and I can very much relate to what you are saying.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit glorifies the Lord Jesus, makes Him more real to us, and out of our belly flows rivers of living water. It is a fire that cannot be quenched, and I can say that after 44 years of being filled with the Spirit. We cannot limit it though to just a one time experience. We must stay filled. We must stay hungry and thirsty, and come to Jesus every day for that living water.


_________________
Mike

 2017/7/27 9:41Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1962
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
It is a fire that cannot be quenched, and I can say that after 44 years of being filled with the Spirit. We cannot limit it though to just a one time experience.



AMEN! We are to be continually be in a state of being filled.


_________________
Travis

 2017/7/27 10:15Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 519
Australia

 Re:


Hi Mike,

"And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
(Acts 19:1-6)."


Just thinking......

(1) Would you say that the tongues and prophesying were the gifts they received when they were baptized with the Holy Spirit or would you say, as some say, that tongues are the evidence of the baptism with the Holy Spirit?

(2) What exactly is the baptism with the Holy Spirit?

(3) What is the real purpose of the baptism with the Holy Spirit?







_________________
Jade

 2017/7/27 10:38Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1927


 Re: Gifts of the Spirit





As important as your gift(s) may be, I'd begin here before going there;

Speaking to women, Peter says in chapter 3 of his first epistle -

Let their adorning not be outward with ostentatious hairdos and wearing of gold nor in composition of apparel, but let the interior adorning of the heart be without corruption, and of an agreeable spirit and peaceful, which is precious in the sight of God. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who waited upon God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands, as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, of whom ye are made daughters, doing well and not being afraid of any terror.

There's much to consider in just these three verses. If a woman is looking for what God says is precious to Him, she's found it here in plain language.

If you're pursuing what's written above, all those other things will be added to you.

I realize that this is a bit off topic, but without this, all else is like the image given in the Proverbs of the pig with a gold ring in his nose.

First things first. First thing being, to be what God has called you to be as a woman. Study and pray about this, and may His Spirit lead you and guide you into all other truth which you are seeking.

 2017/7/27 10:50Profile
TakeUptheCross
Member



Joined: 2016/8/10
Posts: 233
Germany

 Re:

Perhaps I should add as a background that I started to think about this after a conversation with a friend. It was about the church, and... she told that I don't understand married people, because they have many burdens. "You are a free molecule", she said ;d. So I thought, "Ok. When I am so free, and less burdened, could I not somehow be a blessing for my church? Like encouraging them etc."

I agree with bro Travis, there is difference between our calling (for example to be a missionary, preacher, teacher etc), and the gifts of the Spirit. My thoughts were more in direction of how can I serve while I am staying here (in that particular local church).

And yesterday the Lord reminded me: "You want to serve people, but I want that you serve Me." How, I'm not yet quite sure.

Savannah, thank you very much really for that Scripture. I think I have yet a lot to learn... /but/ I love the combination of being in subjection and serving Christ. :)

Edit: ... "but"? That's useless. They both go hand in hand!

To all, to whom I cannot answer - thanks!

Quote:
Only those that r baptized in the Holy Ghost can have gifts of the Spirit


I am just not sure whether this statement is biblically true.

 2017/7/27 12:17Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3366
Louisiana

 Re:

(1) Would you say that the tongues and prophesying were the gifts they received when they were baptized with the Holy Spirit or would you say, as some say, that tongues are the evidence of the baptism with the Holy Spirit?

(2) What exactly is the baptism with the Holy Spirit?

(3) What is the real purpose of the baptism with the Holy Spirit?

Dear Jade,

On the Day of Pentecost, the 120 believers in that upper room were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in tongues. Many believers have been baptized in the Holy Spirit but have yet to receive the gift of tongues, yet it is available to all, and one of the main reasons why saints do not receive this wonderful gift is because of poor teaching on the subject. Many believers want God to do it all. They want God to open their mouth and pray through them in tongues. I am not talking about making up strange sounds and calling that praying in tongues, but the Word of God says that they began to speak in tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. In other words, the Spirit of God will give you the utterance, but you must open your mouth and speak that which He is giving to you.

Now it is my personal belief that a person can be filled with the Holy Spirit and never speak in tongues, because the main purpose of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is to receive power for ministry. Power to be witnesses unto Jesus.

"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." (Acts 1:8).

The Church needs the power of the Holy Spirit to fulfill the Great Commission: "Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” (Matthew 28:16-20).

God has given ministry gifts to the Church. These ministry gifts are the Fivefold Ministry. They are men that walk in the office of Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Prophet, and Teacher as stated in Ephesians 4: 11-13).

God has given given one or more gifts of the Spirit to every believer for the edification or building up of the Body of Christ.

Chapters 12, 13, and 14 of 1st Corinthians tells us what the gifts are, how the gifts are to ministered (in love), and the purpose of the gifts.




_________________
Mike

 2017/7/27 12:55Profile
TakeUptheCross
Member



Joined: 2016/8/10
Posts: 233
Germany

 Re:

And to answer the other question: Yes, I have received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. I think that brother Travis and Mike explained it well.

I cannot remember my parents ever telling me, "We are Pentecostals." I did not even really know the difference between Baptist and Pentecostal until 2015 perhaps. I guess that if you've asked me, I really could not tell you much. And yes, there are out there people who have "strange fire", but that does not mean that God does not therefore baptize his children anymore with fire!

I like the example of bro Travis, with the Baptist. I do not reject people on the ground of being "Baptist". The question is - are we following the same Sheperd? Does Christ, does the Spirit of God dwell in you?

May I share another testimony: My father was born and was raised up Muslim (very believing Muslim). And around the age of 17, God met him and he was converted. He told me that there was one occasion, on which he met a man, who was not speaking his language (perhaps from another tribe). But my father started to talk to him, sharing the gospel with him, while talking in another language. And the man understood him! My father has never after that spoken that language. God just used him at that time.

I just can say, Glory be to God!

 2017/7/27 12:59Profile





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