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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : End time teaching of Elijah in the last days

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Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3113
East TN (for the time being)

 End time teaching of Elijah in the last days


This is to Staff and to any other person who knows about this endtime teaching of Elijah in the last days. Staff has mentioned this several times in his posts and beliefs that we can’t even consider the end times unless we consider Elijah.

I’m not saying I’ve exhausted end times study but in the pre-trib camp, I didn’t hear about it, nor when I was in the middle trib camp for awhile did I ever hear of it and neither have I heard about it in post trib.

So I investigated this teaching just a bit. Several websites of this teaching are taught heavily in the Seventh Day Adventist and in Herbert W. Armstrong’s church, they even went so far to say that they thought Herbert was Elijah but of course, he died.

First, are you from either one of those of those churches? Second, I'm asking because I would like further understanding where this teaching is coming from; I read through a few thread from SI (posted below).

I’m just trying to figure out where you are coming from on this because unless two be agreed, they cannot walk together. Years ago, I was in a heavy discussion about a verse from Revelation and the other person’s sights were on the word, “it” and my sights were on the word “keep.” Well, of course we never came to an agreement!

by staff on thread, “A Prophetic Word from Dietrich Bonhoeffer” 2010

Quote:
The problem with the post is that it doesnt take into account God's plan and protection for the end time Church.
I've said it before and I'l continue till it happens.The end time church comes under the Ministry and Spirit of Elijah.
All the church will come out of their denominational Churches and come under the protection of this ministry.
Deitrich Bonhoeffer did not know this so although most of his message is right he came to the wrong conclusion.
The end time Church will be a very confrontational Church it wont be the turn the other cheek doormat Church where we will stay in the way of every hit. The fight will be taken to the world by the Church, It will be a fight however and we will take hits.
Persecution will always be with us its a given sometimes more some times less but if we conclude the way Dietrich Bonhoeffer concludes we will preach Persecution not the Gospel of Christ and this is sad,
Yours Staff



by staff on thread, “The LAST OUTPOURING by David Wilkerson” 2011
Quote:
But if you study the end times without taking into account Elijah story in Kings and Ahab being a type of the antichrist or the relationship between Elijah and 42mths then you will miss most of the timing. I suggest you read the account again with ahab being a type of antichrist and jezebel being a type of false relgion. For instance Ahab wanted the vineyard and Jezebel helped get it for him but ELijah stepped in would look totally different, staff



by staff, The of the remnant church in these last days.If you believe in a Jezebel, page 3
Quote:
Church then you will also have to also believe in an Elijah Church. If you study the prophetic story around Jezebel the type of whore church, Ahab the type of Antichrist and Elijah then you will look at things differently. It shows that the Church of the end is huge, why that is so, it challenges and it is protected by God. You will see why it is so successful. Basically a study of the 3 characters mentioned tells you more of whats going to happen in the end than the whole book of revelation.!
This is why most people dont really understand whats going to happen, I challenge you to look again over the next few weeks at the passages in Kings and see what the Lord shows you



Nothing will be posted by me between the hours of 8:00 am and 6:30 pm, m-f because I am working and in the car. But I will reply.

Thank you, Lisa


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Lisa

 2017/6/18 20:20Profile
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Joined: 2007/2/8
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 Re: End time teaching of Elijah in the last days

Hi Lysa

I stand by all I have said on Elijah and the end times.
However I consider this comment as trying to associate me with Seventh Day Adventist which is incorrect and doesnt enlighten the discussion.
..........................................................
So I investigated this teaching just a bit. Several websites of this teaching are taught heavily in the Seventh Day Adventist and in Herbert W. Armstrong’s church, they even went so far to say that they thought Herbert was Elijah but of course, he died.
............................................................
I have nothing to do and have got no teaching from any Seventh day adventist sources.
urs staff
Edited:P.s I Edited this post because part of my original reply wasnt given in the right Spirit

 2017/6/18 21:27Profile
staff
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 Re: End time teaching of Elijah in the last days

Hi Lysa ,
In a way I am glad to give account of what I have studied if anyone is genuinely interested no problem.. and I am sure that you probably didnt intentionally try to associate me with Seventh Day Adventist Teachings on hindsight.
Before I get to any point Jacob Prasch a preacher who has a fair few sermons on sermonindex also believes in Elijah coming again in the last days and he is certainly not a seventh day adventist!
I whole heartedly stand by all of the posts you have stated.
Let me explain where the teaching is coming from
I just started reading the bible and like all Christians the Spirit started revealing passages.I checked and double checked were they scriptural and then I checked some more and I am 100% sure in my mind that what I am saying is correct.I began to look up preachers who preached on the subject.The only one that talked extensively was the above mentioned J Prasch.Their are many preachers who believe in a future Elijah but he is the only one with any kind of understanding in my opinion.
I felt led to study extensively on it and I am just saying what I have found.It is up to you and anyone else to be like the Berean and check for them selves.

Whether their is a future Elijah is not in doubt when you look at the two witnesses in Revelation.All most all preachers Post ,Mid or Pre think that one of the two witnesses is Elijah.Nothing new there and they are in the future last time I checked.

I challenge anyone to read the passage on Pentecost for instance.
Peter stands up and says we need to get the 11 Apostles back up to Twelve.The qualification is that the Apostle had to first be a disciple of John The Baptist(who is Elijah if you care to accept him) Dont you find that a bit strange?I did and I looked further.Note:Pentecost could not happen until the twelve apostles(stones)were restored.Where else are twelve stones and Elijah mentioned in the same breath?Where else are twelve stones restored?

I saw that John baptised Jesus and noticed most commentators said this was because Jesus was being humble and identifying himself with us.There is a measure of truth in it but only a measure.What stood out for me was that Jesus said "let it be so,so that all will be fullfilled" and I realized that John The Baptist was fullfilling his role as "Elijah".How?By pouring water over the sacrifice(Jesus)
I am sure everyone understands the teaching that John came as Elijah to make way for Jesus.You then have to ask how did John make way for Jesus.What did he do?Why was he like Elijah?
1:He had the same Spirit as Elijah(came in the spirit and power of Elijah)
2:Wore the same clothes,came in the wildnerness,baptised where Elijah was at the Jordon etc (he followed the exact pattern)
3Poured water over the sacrifice (Jesus)
4He restored 12 stones as Peter points out before Pentecost
just like Elijah did.
The list goes on and on like that...
I then noticed that John The Baptist in one way or another played out the role of Elijah from when he was in his mothers womb right up until Pentecost
I noticed that John The Baptist in his life time and beyond his own life did exactly what Elijah did on Mount Carmel.

The step to a future Elijah is simple in ways
Who are the two witnesses?and their is only one pattern to follow ...someone who is linked inextricably with 3 and 1/2 years and who has the same powers as the witnesses.Nothing new there either almost all preachers believe one of the witnesses is Elijah.Most commentators say Elijah and Enoch or Elijah and Moses but Elijah is always one.
The new thing I am saying is that the future Elijah follows the pattern of the past Elijah's except not pouring water on the sacrifice thats a two off event only(has been fullfilled once and for all).What else new am I saying ?That Mount Carmel is basically a prophesy of Pentecost.In essence one is a prophesy in type of the other,

Now its up to you to study the parrellels and pattern and I guess the one thing that is fustrating is that people are willing to accept the typology of the temple and the typology of inner court and outer court etc but wont except the clearer,simplier typology of Elijah coming before Jesus,
I genuinely hope this is helpful Lysa and im not putting out anything that cant be checked.I challenge anyone to make three columns 1:Elijah 2 John The Baptist 3 The Two Witnesses and see the parrellels and Pattern
urs staff
I checked one of Praschs Sermons is "One messiah,two comings" which may touch on the subject and he also did a Sermon "Elijah a man that could make it rain" and I remember it was more extensive but it isnt on SI.

 2017/6/18 22:36Profile
docs
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Joined: 2006/9/16
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 Re:

Why would all or any of this matter to a church which you advocate will not be here for any of it because it will have been raptured before any of it occurs? If the church as you say cannot come close to understanding the end times without understanding this teaching on Elijah why should it matter if the church will not be here during the major events of the end? Under the pre-trib scenario, by the time the two witnesses appear the church will have been snatched away several years before they appear. If one of the two witnesses is Elijah why should it matter to a church that anticipates being gone? Why should the church be prepared to come under this Elijah ministry if the church is to be raptured during times of normalcy before Elijah appears again?


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David Winter

 2017/6/18 23:31Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
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 Re:

Who does God send Elijah to? Who is Elijah speaking to, who is he a profit to?

Malachi 4:4-6 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

All Israel. Not the Body of Christ His Church, His Bride, which is not Israel.

Israel is earthly which all the promises of God to Israel are earthly, protection, land, mercy on earth to Gods son Israel, His chosen people. The Body of Christ and all our promises are heavenly, The Fathers House, many mansions, seated on the throne with Christ, Where?

If Elijah is for the church, why not the 144,000 of the `12 tribes also?

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2017/6/19 2:03Profile
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 Re:

It is worth noting that many pentecostal groups have had this belief and it made them err following a man who they felt was the "elijah to come".

William Marrion Branham, declared himself to be the elijah to come. "Branham's most controversial revelation was his claim to be the end-time "Elijah" prophet of the Laodicean Church age." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_M._Branham
This cult group denies the trinity and have many strange beliefs from the prophies of branham.


John Alexander Dowie, believed himself at the end of his life to be "Elijah the Restorer" and started a city called: Zion city. Some good believers were influenced by the movement but in the end it went strange as Dowie took the Elijah mantle. https://tinyurl.com/elijahtherestorer


Mormonism declares that Joseph Smith was met by Elijah and he gave him the mantle (priesthood).
"Moroni informed Joseph Smith that this prediction was about to be fulfilled. The fulfillment came some twelve years later, on April 3, 1836. On this day Elijah appeared to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland Temple and there conferred upon them his priesthood" https://www.lds.org/ensign/1972/01/the-coming-of-elijah?lang=eng


The Three Angels’ Messages of the the Adventist Church is thought to be a type of the elijah to come "so the law and the Sabbath were restored to spiritual Israel after 1844." http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception-remnant_Adventist_Elijah_Israel



Armstronites flirt with the idea of the elijah to come being their leader but think it could be another man: "As for being the "Elijah to come," Herbert Armstrong may have fulfilled some of Elijah's roles (Malachi 3:1-3; 4:5-6), but as time goes on, it seems he did not completely fulfill the type. In fact, Jesus in Matthew 17:10-13 shows that John the Baptist fulfilled the type. If this type is dual, another "Elijah" will arise before Christ's second coming to prepare the way for His return and the establishment of the Kingdom of God." http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/About.FAQ/ID/36/Was-Herbert-W.-Armstrong-an-apostle-Was-he-Elijah-come.htm







As you can see with an belief that a "man" must come again like John the Baptist leaves open this dangerous belief and a chance for people to be decieved by a man. Jesus warns his disciples in Matthew 24: "“Watch out that no one deceives you."

We are looking for the coming Christ in the clouds and not a restorer type of elijah.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2017/6/19 5:37Profile
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 Re:

Hi Greg
Jacob Prasch a preacher on SI believes more or less the same as I.
Its also worth noting that many false Messiahs came in before Jesus day and nothing came of them.
Was the teaching that A Messiah would come wrong Greg?no

Its also worth noting that the Devil trys to corrupt any teaching of God just like he did with the teaching of a coming Messiah before Jesus day.

Just because these groups or individuals went into err doesnt mean that the teaching is wrong.We have had err to do with almost every doctrine and you can rhyme of a list for any doctrine.

I think the most dissapointing aspect of your reply Greg is that instead of looking at the plain points I have made all valid all scriptural,instead of answering where you think the scripture doesnt add up you choose to take the above route.

I believe you should check scripture with scripture and if their is an err then show where it is ........

Also the two witnesses are just men should we not look and expect them to come?

So my advice is dont throw the baby out with the bath water until you have been like the Berean and check it all out,
Again Jacob Prasch a preacher on SI believes more or less the same as I,
urs staff

 2017/6/19 6:04Profile
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Joined: 2007/2/8
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 Re:

Hi Docs,
Let me answer your last question first

Why was anyone prepared to go out in the wilderness to see John The Baptist?Beacuse he came in the spirit and power.
The Church will be no different they will go out of their comfortable churches out to the wilderness because of power.
Thats where the power will be.

As to the Pre trib question.
The 7 years are made up of two halves and its only the second half which when the Judgement comes.The first half is a normal time in the sense of eating and drinking and marrying and giving in marriage etc

Again the two witnesses have been swept under the carpet because they dont fit into our views,

The Jewish typology didnt stop 2000 yrs ago the Jewish Typology continues to the End and even into Eternity.

Who else except for Daniel getting an explanation is associated with 3 /1/2 or times time and half a time or 1260 days?
urs staff

 2017/6/19 6:18Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3113
East TN (for the time being)

 Re: staff

Quote:
by staff
I have nothing to do and have got no teaching from any Seventh day adventist sources.
urs staff
Edited:P.s I Edited this post because part of my original reply wasnt given in the right Spirit


I investigated and those were the most prominent that showed up, and that's why I asked. So I'm glad I didn't read it if it wasn't in the right spirit!! :) I've done the same thing myself, so you are not alone. I'll read the other answers.

(edit) And I just didn't mention 7th day Adventist either, I mentioned the HA too.unedit


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Lisa

 2017/6/19 6:27Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3113
East TN (for the time being)

 Re: staff

Quote:
by staff
I genuinely hope this is helpful Lysa and im not putting out anything that cant be checked.I challenge anyone to make three columns 1:Elijah 2 John The Baptist 3 The Two Witnesses and see the parrellels and Pattern
urs staff


Yes, it genuinely does, I've wanted to ask you for a few weeks now. I will study more on it and listen to J Prasch's sermons.


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Lisa

 2017/6/19 6:37Profile





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