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aeryck
Member



Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 What is not, Truth?

Good Morning Philologos,

I was hoping you would follow your earlier inclination to look at 'What is not, Truth'
Or better said, 'What is not truth?' a childlike anwer I got, to this.

1. Truth is not Lie.

It is a most apparent thing for us as believers that we are continually buffetted by the liar in people. The lies that people live by are the same one's that are going to eventually destroy them for eternity.

Honesty, and openess of face is not always possible. Some people have to hit rock bottom, before a truthful cry is uttered. 'Help!' is often the last words one hears.

In Jesus,
.A.
:-P


_________________
Eric John Sawyer

 2005/6/17 6:15Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: What is not, Truth?

Quote:
Truth is not Lie.

It's a start but remember that biblically 'truth' is also something we 'do'.

Bible students have often discussed the level to which John is engaging the culture of his day in his 'witness'. For the Greek 'Truth' was the substantial reality of which the physical world was only 'Shadow'. One of the answer to what is not truth would them be 'shadow is not truth'. Do you want to pursue this?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/6/17 7:14Profile
aeryck
Member



Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 Re: What is Truth?

Oh yes, Philologos

It is not unfamiliar to me. Paul's sermon in Athens to me is the pinnacle of this. For me he uncovers the whole issue. With that statue to an unknown God.

Also maybe a little bit of what actually transpired in the town. I know that he engaged the people very strongly.

In Jesus,
.A./Eric
:-P


_________________
Eric John Sawyer

 2005/6/17 7:30Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
It's a start but remember that biblically 'truth' is also something we 'do'.



I think it quite interesting that the Japanese have a concept for our word 'understand' that is quite different than ours. I recall watching a teacher of mine doing something that I was to turn and immitate. When he had shown me several times he then asked me in his fairly good English, "Do you understand?" I said yes! I 'understand'! I then tried to do what he did and had it all wrong. He says something to the effect, "I thought you said you understand?" I did, I said. His reply word for word was: "You [i]no[/i] understand because you can [u]no[/u] do." I always kept that near me and felt it applied to our lives as Christians. We don't understand Truth until we can and are willing to 'do' truth. We can 'express' or articulate the particulars; but can we [u]"DO"[/u] it. If we can't; we simply do not [i]understand[/i].

God Bles,s

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/6/17 10:01Profile
aeryck
Member



Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 What is Truth?

Hi Robert,

While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
[Matthew 17:5]

I believe that the Word is truth, what follows is obedience, or disobedience. We are indwelled by the Spirit of Truth, and as we submit and are obedient to his leading, our lives express the truth.

There are most certainly different kinds of truth. There is Jesus, God in the flesh ~ the incarnation: 'I am the way, the truth and the life' and on the other side is the highest of man's truth.

Could it be true that the term: 'What is Truth?' if applied to God, could never really be answered, because we are only seeing in a mirror, prophecying in part... However, we could learn of this Truth by reading say John 1:14.

When it comes to the other end of the spectrum, or slide rule, or scale, there is man's truth, which could be say Homer? One might read that and be boggled, one might read the truth of Albert Schwietzer. 'Reverance for life' ~ and go that's it, I am going to live by that truth.

I am only throwing ideas in the air, if I have rough shod your thoughts forgive me.

[What you have said certainly has merit, in a secularistic way. What works is real. 'edit' add -I will verify this, in the meantime pay it no mind.]

In Jesus,
.A.
:-P


_________________
Eric John Sawyer

 2005/6/17 12:11Profile









 Re: What is truth re aeryck

Quote:
aeryck said:
What you have said certainly has merit, in a secularistic way.


Hmmm.

It is beginning to sound as if you are looking for alternative truths to Jesus, as if there is some worthwhile comparison which can be made? I may be picking you up incorrectly, though.

Quote:
Robert had said:
I always kept that near me and felt it applied to our lives as Christians. We don't understand Truth until we can and are willing to 'do' truth. We can 'express' or articulate the particulars; but can we "DO" it. If we can't; we simply do not understand.



In light of 1 John 1
6 'If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and [b]do not the truth[/b]..' I'd say Robert makes an extremely valid point which is directly applicable to any Christian's walk with God.

Going back to John 18, we had this from Jesus:
'Every one that is [i][b]of[/b] the truth[/i] [b][i]heareth my voice[/i][/b].'

Is not this 'hear'ing, a 'doing' of 'truth' in the exact sense Jesus meant it - hearing having everything to do with how we respond and far more than just [i]listening[/i]?

 2005/6/17 13:35
aeryck
Member



Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 Re: What is Truth?

Dorcas,

Please, read my comment again:

[What you have said certainly has merit, in a secularistic way. What works is real. 'edit' add -I will verify this, in the meantime pay it no mind.]

There were very specific reasons why I did this, I am busy studying a severe apologetic that deals with morals without Christ, that is as a system in themselves: which is akin to humanism, moralism and possibly secularism, but once again and I am stating ~ I will verify this. In the meantime pay it no mind.

'Simply disregard this comment.'

In Jesus,
.A.
:-P


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Eric John Sawyer

 2005/6/17 17:30Profile









 Re:

OK aeryck,

I confess I did not know how to interpret your 'edit' comment, as I was not sure after it, why you had posted at all. Anyway, how can there be a moral system of any kind, without God?

 2005/6/17 19:58
aeryck
Member



Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 Re: What is Truth? : How can there be any moral system without God?

Dear Dorcas,
Deleting is not really fairgame, especially when it involves a direct answer-back. However, I caught myself half expressing a view that I honestly believe was incomplete. You know 'mouth beats brain to paper senario.'

Because the information I have been studying is pretty recent, I just wanted time to verify it, but still hold the point up for scrutiny. I know how quickly threads change direction if one does not.

Just so it is not lost. I will with my best thoughts endeavour to reasonably answer-back your current question, which I might add is an extremely good one.

Anyway, how can there be a moral system of any kind, without God?

This goes to the core of Apologetics and the nature of man. The knowledge of good and evil. Whereas Paul writes: 'in Adam all died' again 'dead in our trespasses and sins' ~ however there is some question about whether Adam and Eve survived with a certain part of their nature which constituted the ability to still manifest a moral code without being in fellowship with God.

Paul seems to hint at this in Romans 1, where he talks about 'supressing the truth in ungodliness'. I have always been a oppossed in my view, but after studying and debating a fairly large number of evolutionists, I realized that the parts that deal with Natural Science in Romans 1, clearly show that God has allowed mankind to be able to practice inductive thought, the ability to extrapolate between visible and invisible, I am sorry if this does not make sense, it was hard for me in the beginning to. [Wilder Smith (Prof.)] discusses this so well when he covers the Creation, Evolution Debate.

Now back to your question. [joke] Seriously this is something that really will have scholars and theologians turning up their toes in disgust, it is something the Charles Finney and the Calvanists? find no point of agreement. It is to do with the ability to choose, which was/was-not taken away after Eden.

So can mankind without God, be moral. Oh yes, you have to just look at the examples. Mother Theresa, Albert Schwietzer, are just to big one's perhaps I am wrong to mentioning their names.[Because of the huge debt we owe them in their efforts at relieving the suffering in our world.]

Atheists are happy to push forward morals as being God. In the movie Time Changer, this whole issue is examined, and whenever morals and Jesus are disconnected the end result is catastrophic on a global scale, I guess in a large degree that is where we are going as a planet. Mankind has always loved to admit to managing on their own without God's help.

My aunty is a class A example of this, poor dear, she was a Nun who left the order and believes firmly that her good deeds are what justify her before God. If you but attempt to explain the beauty of Grace, she digs her heels in and will generate enough hatred to kill all the camels on the farm.

In Jesus,
Aeryck.
:-P
[curling toes, and killing camels...lalol.]


_________________
Eric John Sawyer

 2005/6/18 4:17Profile
aeryck
Member



Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 Re: What is Truth?

Hear ye, hear ye.
Regarding the topic, What is Truth? I found three additional answers that Jesus might have given Pilate, which might make this extremely interesting, courtesy of Prof. Roger Nicole [Prof. of Theology]

1. Truth is such and such...
2. Truth is too great to be defined.
3. You are right Pilate there is no such thing as truth, and no distinction between true and false.

To view Prof. Roger Nicole's paper "What is Truth?" you will probably need a copy of Scripture and Truth by Carson Woodbridge.

Once again, please realize that I still have not really responded to the original point of my 'edit'-add. The source material is lengthly, so in a sense I am deviated from this thread to other texts, I hope that it will grow without my non-sensical jargon...it is after all the product of a pilgrim in progress...lol

In Jesus,
Aeryck.
:-P
edit-add:1
Unfortunatly, I have been unable to find this article by Prof. Nicole, however this site seems to have a huge database of luverly stuff, which he is busy this...not for the faint hearted. click here and disappear.
edit-add:2
You will have to search for Nicole, and then a file about 770kb - title 'Heart....' This is the main link where the site owner discovered Prof. Nicole, doing some serious 'wood chopping', like Prof. Wilder-Smith, who had a severe lobotomy, it it did not stop him from presenting lectures, much like the immensley brave Francis Schaeffer.
Try this link for Nicole. I am disappearing totally with this one. Bless God, .A. click here and I will dissapear.


_________________
Eric John Sawyer

 2005/6/18 4:26Profile





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