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philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Truth is Jesus


This sounds as if it has to be right but think awhile. We can't always reverse these phrases eg God is Love, but would it be true to say Love is God? That would all depend on what you meant by love. So we still need a definition of what truth is, otherwise everyone's 'truth' becomes Jesus.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/6/16 15:55Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: What is Truth ?

Quote:
What is Truth?

Sometimes we can get a better focus is we ask ourselves 'What is not the Truth?' In other words what is the opposite to Truth?


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Ron Bailey

 2005/6/16 16:01Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Looking at the life of Job and his counselors 'counsel' we have to add a deminsion to all this. What is spoken may be true in a general sense- but does it apply to the person or situation? The whole of the Word of God is written truth, but it is not until it is applied by the Spirit of God that it become the "Sword of the Spirit." The enemy weilded the word of God- but in his hands the truth is made into a lie. When the enemy quotes the word it is being forwarded by his spirit of disobedience. I must conclude that truth is only [u]T[/u]ruth when God is weilding it and applying it. Men change the truth of God into a lie all the time and may be making statements that are true in a general sense. What is Truth- [u]T[/u] are the oracles of God as they are uttered by God as He is applying it to the subject. We are searching for 'truth' or wisdom- but there are far too many variables for us in our own power to demonstrate 'Truth'. This is why Christ was made flesh and dwelt among us. He [i]is[/i] [u]T[/u]ruth because He is the very [u]O[/u]racle of God.

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/6/16 16:48Profile
aeryck
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Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 What is Truth?

Hi Ginnyrose, I was listening to Drew Marshall's radio show, with an interview with Darrell Mansfield. He archives the shows in mp3 format. http://www.drewmarshall.ca ~ In the opening address Darrell called himself that. I thought it was a great name for what I do. I have been playing gigs since 1987. Originally, I got my equimpment from a Jehovah's Witness. It was the time of my shame. Jesus has worked mightly in my life, all praise to His name. On a Thurs and a Friday night, I sing at a brothers restuarant, and he allows me to sing songs that are positive and edifying. That gives me quite a wide range. God is good, to me. In my closing chapter, for I have been doing this for a long time now.

That viewing sounds so sad. We had a shark attack along the coast near hear very recently. It is so awfully sad when young people die.

I was listening to John's Gospel on the way to the gig and the part where Jesus called out and he talked about the Spirit, which those who believed would recieve. Connecting that with the Spirit of Truth, I know that this is something quite so wonderful that we have the Truth in us.

Christ in us. We have the fount of all truth in our centre. Such an honour, and so hard to explain.

I realized the most awesome fact that as was said, by someone else on the threads, 'we have nothing that was not given us.' God created us with a soul, and mind and body, and obviously we are able to arrive at certain conclusions about life by ourselves, but when we realize that we are spiritually dead.

It is then we realize we can only know, or have knowledge, wisdom or truth to a certain point and then we have to admit the greatest truth, our own emptiness.

I listened to Ravi Zacharias, talking about how he talked to an old hindu guru dude, who had written hundred's of books. They talked of the brotherhood. Then Ravi said to him that there was more hood than brother, and the old man said he had not yet in all his searching been able to figure out how to deal with that.

Another incident where a great philosopher, oh I can't remember her name, committed suiside, in looking at her diaries, there was a plea which recurred, 'if only someone would love me'

We are so blessed to have the Lord in our lives, because He really does love us, with a love that is always faithful and is completely committed to us, forever.

In Jesus,
.A.
:-P


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Eric John Sawyer

 2005/6/16 17:08Profile
aeryck
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Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 What is Truth?

Wow Ravin, that was pretty cool. The verses like a stream. Perhaps is might be good to take careful notice of how these flowed:-

1.Hebrews 10:7
2.Psalm 40:7
3.JOHN 1:1
4.Luke 24:32
5.Luke 24:45
6.John 1:10,11
7.John 1:12
If anyone was following an earlier thread, it has been all about John 1:12

Tonight as I rode home in the dark listening to John's Gospel, I got this verse:

John 7:38,39
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they which believe on him should receive; for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

In Jesus,
.A.
:-P


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Eric John Sawyer

 2005/6/16 17:25Profile
aeryck
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Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 What is Truth?

Sorry Dorcas, that's what happens when one has a gig to do, and time is ticking and on is looking at the very interesting thread developing and trying to answer and getting my hair in a knot...lol.
Seriously you are right on target that passage is the one I was thinking of.

John 18:37,38

Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault.

I agree with you that Jesus answered the question earlier on and most certainly that would have been the correct answer, but Jesus did not answer Pilate's question.

All I was wondering was other than the obvious answer, is it at all that Jesus might have said something quite different to Pilate, he after all was not a disciple and like each individual, and Jesus loves individuals...you and I...are examples, and each of us were at a different place when Jesus came into our lives, therefore each of our stories is unique and special.

This question is not answered for a good reason, but if it were. Hypothetically speaking. What would Jesus have said.

Thinking of the first part of Jesus words.

'Everyone that is of the truth heareth my voice.'

This must have pierced at the core of his mindset. Pilate's upbringing was in a strong philosophical invironment. Correct me if I am wrong. Hence, the answer was directed at his core.
All they talked about was truth, in every enlarging circles of confusion.

Here was someone speaking of about 'truth' as if it was not difficult to assemble...and then saying that his voice would be heard if one is 'of it' Pilate was very curious.

Hence his question: What is Truth? You must admit, that sure could have been an answer and a half.

You have surrendered: John 14:4-10 with emphasis, on 'I am the Truth' I love this passage and was so into it a week or so ago. Especially the way the questions are so innocently spoken as it there was a little avenue one could walk down to be where Jesus was going.

It is the same with the resurrection of Lazarus...and the part where Mary or Martha? I cannot remember, says: Yes, Lord in the final resurrection... and Jesus says so simply: 'I am the resurrection and the life.'

Perhaps I am just being a naughty old man, and should stop trying to draw out what is not there for a good enough reason.

I nevertheless is a great question, and it come from a philosophical mind exhausted with not finding the answer. How old was Pilate? 40, or 50..he was a empty old man, asking empty old questions, because he wanted to understand Jesus.

Your are right Dorcas, I wander what I was thinking, What is Truth? said Pilate, and the Holy Spirit whispered to his heart, things we cannot know for they are not written.

You are sharp, brother.

In Jesus,
.A.
:-P


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Eric John Sawyer

 2005/6/16 17:49Profile
aeryck
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Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 What is Truth?

Hi Philologos, this is a technique employed by Keith Green in some of his teaching after his Balaam's Ass experience, if that is correct to say. He had regarded himself as some prophet, and then God brought him to his knees, and his ministry in Jesus changed so dramatically that his freinds thought had really disappeared to Neverland, I jest. Seriously, it is so important that one realizes some facts. When one speaks of a question like this.

First and foremost, Jesus is not Truth. Jesus is God and as such he is 'The Truth'.

I love this part; we all have a measure of truth, but we do not have 'The Truth'. We would like to imagine we do. We cannot. Like Enoch, who walked with God and was not more. Poof we would be gone.

We are 'one spirit with Jesus' and therefore what ever He has is ours, whatever the Father has is ours, for we have the Holy Spirit. However, inasmuch as having 'all truth' that is pure vanity and stupidity, it would amount to saying we have all wisdom...then James would be wrong in saying, 'if any lack wisdom let him ask'

For literally years I read that, and said, I don't need any wisdom, I got things all sussed out. Ha! Vanity of Vanities. I never realised my stupidity.

We are told to be continually filled with the Spirit, thus implying we are not. Of many years of walking in submission to the will of God, it might be agreed that we will be changed more and more into the character of Christ, but we are certainly not CHRIST.

So it is that we find ourselves asking the question along with Pilate, humbly realizing that if it were not for the revelations of the Holy Spirit, we too might be as perplexed by Jesus' statement.

It was a silly thought, to endeavour to place in the mouth of Jesus words he did not say. It however would be nice to look at the question and wonder how he might have answered such a question from one of us...oh I am nuts.

Take care,
When the enemy shall rush in like a flood the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against them.
In Jesus,
.A.
:-P


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Eric John Sawyer

 2005/6/16 18:07Profile
aeryck
Member



Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 What is Truth?

Yes, Robert. I agree.
I can only share a rather odd thing that happened to me about 2 years ago.
I was in the process of tape recording the scripture from my son's tapes to some blanks, actually come to think of it, this might have been slightly longer ago.

Well, you know how it is when you start out as a believer and you cannot find joy in anything else but God's Word, then one gets into books and writings and well before you know it, you are not as in love with reading, and well the tempreture of God's presense diminishes and like the old frog you just miss it. Well, I went through that. I grew up, and got to learn to enjoy the music in God's Word. Some people put on the old music tapes, I put on the scriptures, and my boys have actually at times requested I do so. They find the Scriptures inspiring.

Well, everyone was sitting in the lounge watching a movie I kinda but didn't want to, and the tapes were rolling. I was recording Luke's Gospel, but somewhere in the confusion, I had convinced myself I was recording Romans.

So as I hovered between the two rooms, closing the door, checking the tape, so as to know when to turn it over. I suddenly was struck by the Majesty of the Words... I expressed right out loud as they were pouring off the tape, 'Wow Paul speaks with authority!'

I was flabberghosted [my word, I think] and then it hit me, this was Jesus speaking, I was totally broadsided, I have never forgotten that, it was a perfect moment. Yes, I agree with you, the words of Jesus are truth like no man has ever spoken, especially in my house...LOL[REALLY LOUD!!!]

In Jesus,
.A.
:-P


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Eric John Sawyer

 2005/6/16 18:17Profile









 Re: What is Truth?

Quote:
All they talked about was truth, in every enlarging circles of confusion.



I like your point about Pilate's philosophical background. Is this not the import, to some extent, of John's record that He called Himself the Alpha and the Omega? This is echoed in Hebrews, where He is described as the Author and the Finisher of faith.

 2005/6/16 18:27
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

I thought this observation might add something to this discussion.

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6, KJVS)

Biblical Greek does not need to use personal pronouns as the subject of verbs. In this it is like Spanish (and many other languages). In Spanish 'tengo' means 'I have'; the personal pronoun 'I/yo' is already built into the word. The Greek word 'eimi' means 'I am' with the personal pronoun I/egO already built into the verb. So Christ might simply have said

'eimi hE odos kai hE alEthia kai hE zOE'
which would have meant
"I_am the way and the truth and the life"

However He said '
'egO eimi hE odos kai hE alEthia kai hE zOE'

This has the effect of emphasising the word 'I' and drawing all attention to the speaker. Rotherhams translation tries to capture this by punctuation; a comma after the word 'I'.
Jesus saith unto him—I, am the way, and the truth, and the life:

In our imagination we can see Him laying His hand on His breast as He speaks. The English spoken equivalent would be something like
[u][i][b][size=large]I[/size][/b][/i][/u] am the way and the truth and the life.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/6/17 4:22Profile





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