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ddp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/15
Posts: 8


 I need hope

I have some serious questions about God and christianity. I know here someone can state their case. I am questioning whether God truly exists.

I don't want the same old "Job story bullshit"
I know the Bible...

[u][b]Questions I have[/b][/u]

1.) Does God want someone ballsy enough to confront/ question Him, like Jacob? Someone who wants truth bad enough to stand before Him? David did it in Psalms, and all scripture is God inspired, so, doesd God want people to start standing up and doing that?
2.) How can we be sure that we are right? There are billions of souls who are destined for hell because they haven't heard this "gospel" Is God so cruel to judge them the same?
3.) How reliable is the bible? It was written by men, and no matter what preachers have said in alliterated sermons, THEY WERE CAPABLE OF ERROR...
4.) Can one be an agnostic and still obtain the kingdom?

I don't want rhetorical garbage... I can see through it, I will tear up rhetoric.
I want the "power of god" to come through the responses.

 2005/6/15 19:37Profile
ddp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/15
Posts: 8


 Re: I need hope

17 views and no response? Yet you will argue scripture. I am asking for truth...
Pleading, and yet I am ignored.
That is a terrible testimony... I came, was honest, and this is what happens.

 2005/6/15 20:04Profile
ReceivedText
Member



Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Re: I need hope

Hard questions? Fine. Bring them on. Opinionated statements? You got it.

But you really need to clean up your language. I think we all will appreciate that here. It is just respect, decency, and common courtesy that I know will be reciprocated.

So thank you in advance.

1) Of course God wants us to ask questions. There are two requirements for coming to God: a) Believe that He is, b) Believe that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.

When you really believe the "He is" who He is, it will mean that you come to Him in humility, reverence, and awe. Not to mention quite a bit of fear and trembling. If you fear no one save yourself whom you can't even cause to live forever, you are greatly to be pitied.

2) No "cruelty" in justice. God is just in sending people to hell. You should get your emotions out of it. Try going to court and crying and see if it helps your case. If you don't have a kangaroo court, it will only hinder and you will look like a lunatic to think emotions will help you at law.

People don't go to hell because God wants them there. They go because they are criminals. Hell is a place of eternal incarceration.

3) Depends on how big your God is. If your God isn't big enough to use a man as you would use a pencil, then you don't have a very big God.

4) Nope. You gotta believe that "He is", not that "He might be."

You want power? Humble yourself and seek God for yourself. Be like Jacob and wrestle in prayer until you get through. You can't expect someone else to do this for you. But I am happy to show you the way. That is my privilege. Now it is time for your part.

RT

 2005/6/15 20:07Profile
ddp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/15
Posts: 8


 Re:

I can clean up my language, a simple request....

But the babies, the children, all born in say Hindi, or Muslim homes, and that is what they are taught. They teach that Christ was a blasphemer, just as we say Mohammed was.

They grow up, doing EXACTLY as they are told. They believe they are right with ALL THEIR HEARTS...
and don't know better, and in their hearts they are righteous, and God says it is the heart He looks at, correct?
So what makes good people criminals, if crime is doing something intentionally wrong?

I don't want ANYONE to do ANYTHING for me, I figured I could get answers from this site where people talk bible all day.


 2005/6/15 20:14Profile
ReceivedText
Member



Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Re:

Quote:
I can clean up my language, a simple request....



Really appreciate that. Thanks.

Quote:
But the babies, the children, all born in say Hindi, or Muslim homes, and that is what they are taught. They teach that Christ was a blasphemer, just as we say Mohammed was.

They grow up, doing EXACTLY as they are told. They believe they are right with ALL THEIR HEARTS...



I've believed a LOT of things in my heart. I've even been told things within Christianity that didn't line up with the Bible, so I have rejected them as from man and not from God.

You could never convince me that people in India are mindless robots who do everything they are told. Now some people there may CHOOSE to do everything they are told and believe what they are told to believe, but that is THEIR CHOICE and is the fruit of their own COMPLACENCY. It is by no means an indication that they aren't capable or willing to find Truth. So many religions have originated in India. The people there ARE at least capable of confronting status quo. It seems to be their culture to do so.

So their questioning ability is still very much in tact. I contend that only the gospel makes real sense. Propoganda like saying that Christ was a blasphemer has no validation from history nor scripture. Weak argumentation there.

Quote:
and don't know better, and in their hearts they are righteous, and God says it is the heart He looks at, correct?



Does God look at our hearts? Of course He does. But what does this mean? It just means that He knows our thoughts and intents.

But to use this to cancel out His command to believe on Christ is a HUGE stretch.

Quote:
So what makes good people criminals, if crime is doing something intentionally wrong?



Everyone old enough to think intelligibly has done many things "intentionally wrong." What are you talking about? No one is good. Only God is good. I think you have a warped sense of "good."

Quote:
I don't want ANYONE to do ANYTHING for me, I figured I could get answers from this site where people talk bible all day.



Well, actually you do and this is way OK. You made it very clear that you wanted someone to take the time to answer your questions. This is something FOR YOU. And I must say that it is a pleasure to do so. ;-)

RT

 2005/6/15 20:27Profile
Chosen7Stone
Member



Joined: 2003/7/21
Posts: 268
FL, USA

 Re:

I'm sorry if I kinda pick-and-choose here, and if I don't stay to "duke it out" if it comes to that, but I have reasons. I pick-and-choose because I don't know it all, and some have already been answered better than I can (not that what I offer is better than what's been said) and I might not return to this forum because I'm just naturally in-and-out, like that.
But I'm not a coward, I will stand by my words until proven otherwise (aka humbled), so I offer my E-mail address if what I say makes anyone desire I return to this forum... Chosen7Stone@aol.com .

ddp originally asked:

Quote:
1.) Does God want someone ballsy enough to confront/question Him, like Jacob? Someone who wants truth bad enough to stand before Him? David did it in Psalms, and all scripture is God inspired, so, doesn't God want people to start standing up and doing that?


You know, I think so, but to a point. Jacob didn't spend his whole life wrestling God, and David was honest with God, but not disrespectful. We are supposed to have blind faith, the faith of a child, and as a teacher of four-year-olds I can tell you that children don't need much more evidence to believe beyond the words of someone they trust. I too often hear Christians tell atheists, "Just test Him. Pray that He'll prove Himself to you." I used to say that, and I was wrong. Jesus did not perform miracles on request. He performed miracles as a reward for faith. And Christians are rewarded for their faith. But that's a little off-topic. Pray, even if in the beginning you feel like you're talking to yourself. But pray, and be honest. Don't demand signs and miracles, but ask for courage to take that...leap of faith...and become a Christian.

A little later, ddp wrote:
Quote:
But the babies, the children, all born in say Hindi, or Muslim homes, and that is what they are taught. They teach that Christ was a blasphemer, just as we say Mohammed was.


Actually, Muslims are taught that Jesus was a sort of lesser prophet, and they respect Him, but don't revere Him or hold Him to be the Son of God.
God is just. No one goes to Hell who doesn't deserve it. Isaiah 64:6 says, "All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away." The only reason Christians don't go to hell, which they also deserve, is because they have accepted Christ, and therefore accepted His sacrifice on the cross...a death He died in our stead.


_________________
Mary M.

 2005/6/15 21:35Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: I need hope

Being that what follows was something written awhile back perhaps a whole different set of questions are in order. You have asked for 'hope' but sound very much angry which may well be beginnings of something stirring inside.

Hope you can take this in mind without any attention other than to think on it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[u]What an honest atheist believes[/u]

Did life, your life, generate from a thought, your own thought, before you 'were'? Was it by decision or committee that decided, 'today I will live and breath and and move across the face of the earth?'

Or perhaps by a long line of germ multiplication and accident upon accident that finds you spit forth as a collection of sinews, bones and fluids.

Perhaps the large gathering of similar mutants, similar to yourself can explain it, being so wise, it is by their wisdom and committee that you stand, another happy accident called forth from the primal soup bowl.

All your emotions, thought, feeling, love and hatred, beauty, opportunity, comfort, despondency, depression and excitement, eating and drinking coming and going, happiness, sorrow, all an illusion and confusion of the accident of the matter, misfires of the DNA randomly bumping up against each other.

All of it without meaning or result, dragging you off to an inescapable death, back to the side splash of the gene pool, to waste and decay and to dissolve away. All your fellow mutants who brought you forth in their great collective wisdom of explanation can't tell you why, why you must die. It's just a breakdown in the system, just kind works it's self out that way. There is nothing else, no hope beyond the grave, eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you will die. Kind of a bummer, but you won't remember it anyway, so not to worry, just as long as you can suppress it, everything is nothing, it's where you came from, what you are now doing and where you are headed, nowhere.

Try not to get to worked up about it, in fact all this crying at funerals is just silly, emotions are just a confusion of the facts, it really just boils down to data and we are getting better and better at processing all this as we collectively evolve, shouldn't be too much longer before we will have a pill for you to straighten out the wrong math that is being added up and you will feel much better about the whole thing. Remember, you have a job to do and it's to survive so you can make more of these things to run around on this giant playground. Don't forget, you will not remember any of this anyway at some point, so don't be so selfish, the next generation gets their turn you know.

Besides there is all kinds of cool things to check out right now, not that you will remember any of it, not trying to rain on your parade here. Remember just to have fun, everyday, it's all just kind of random and you can be thankful that you live in such an advanced age were you can pretty much forget about all this other stuff going on around you. If you practice enough distraction and just get a real grip on things you will see that mutants killing mutants and rape and hunger and so called 'devastation' and wars and little children being sodomized (they grow up eventually) and 'injustice' and hunger and fathom and all this so called 'evil' and it's opposite 'morals' or 'good' is just an illusion that comes out of the mis-firings in the brain, (back to that bad math again) it's just the mutants having fun, really there is nothing 'wrong' with any of it, there isn't any "wrong", just "is".

Oops, said 'thankful', there is no such thing. Nor 'love' or 'caring', you don't 'love' your children or your wife (stupid idea anyway,
"marriage"), they are just machines, collections of data like you. It's really kind of funny that a whole bunch of our fellow mutants go to all this bother to try and 'figure out' things, expending all this energy and time to become "educated" and "intelligent" when they are just going to die and nobody is going to give a rip about them anyway. What a waste of time. Probably shouldn't let out that secret too much since they are the same ones who will make everything that much easier once they get all this math figured out, look at all the fun they are missing out on.

I lied too, which is funny since there is no such thing either, guess I must have 'mis-spoke' about not being selfish. What difference does it make? Your "friends" and kids and wife or your 'lover' gets knocked off what's the big deal, just go make another one or go steal one, make a new 'friend', there are no so called 'rights', says who? Judges and police and all this restraint, it's just absurd, all just a design to keep us from having fun. We are the ones who determine what to do.

Sound hopeless? Well of course it is hopeless. Hope means something different, something better, better than what? Who really cares? Who really cares about you? Or what you 'think', why get angry about it? On the other hand, why not? It's really none of your business what I do or say and it's all meaningless anyway, won't be long before you are just another corpse, a skull and bones with all the flesh rotted off.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

Rom 1:18-32

Continued...


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/6/15 23:02Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Continued...

[u]B.C and A.D[/u]

Two areas that are off limits to you, that by must needs are relegated to the off site storage compartment of your mind. Odd that they must be unknown while everything else under the sun is given an explanation, a theory, a hypothesis. The former you can do absolutely nothing, the last you may have some say about, though you cannot stop it's approach. Before you Came and After you Die.

And being that you now live in the muddy middle, the dash on your grave stone, you cannot give a plausible reason why, only the shallow reasoning of ultimately 'no reason at all', so much for superior intellect.

Find it not strange that you must force yourself to lie to your own self by purposefully suppressing that which rises up within you, begging for an answer. Survival of the fittest a game to play when the prize is your rotting head tossed on the pile, another stone to build the memorial of your dead god who neither sees nor hears, nor can save your soul from the dark prison you have locked the doors on.

Long live your memory of no purpose, to be passed down through the ages of an illusion, through successive generations until it fades into the voidless form of the nothingness it came from. Long live your pointless existence and your religious self righteousness, your self made man, you proved 'em all wrong. Out of nothing came nothing and to nowhere you go. Your only hope is annihilation, to forget and be forgotten, to be wasted and scattered, to be as you were, uncreated.

You think about it and think real hard, because there is a point of no return and if you must believe that then there is also no point of beginning and you are now living a lie that doesn't exist and yet, here you find yourself. The crushing reality of everything hinges on the denial of what is seen, what is heard and what you yourself feel. Your own conscience bears against you and berates you and you find yourself fighting against yourself. You must therefore make your own self the temple to worship at, because there is nothing else and no one to be thankful to. To your own self you live and die and have your being.

You believe a lie, live a lie and convince yourself that you are but a mere product of an evolutionary accident. Not only are you in denial to yourself but to those who you gladly drag down to the pit of a self made hell, a collection of no-bodies and you flaunt it. You cannot force yourself to believe in a mythical devil though you are one yourself. You cannot believe that God exists though the condemnation rests on you because you live.

What is hell but where you now dwell, no need to be sent where you have set a tent. No need to bemoan no good God would place you there, you choose, you choose, you choose.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What more the wrath than to deny Him who loves you.

Who longs to save you from yourself and from your god that you created in your own image.

"[i]Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?[/i]" (1)

Or

"[i]But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.[/i]" (2)

You choose.

"[i]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."[/i](3)

To your own self and to that alone must you answer.

[i]"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."[/i] (4)

[i]"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve;..." [/i]

You choose

[i]"...whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."[/i] (5)

[i]"If we live, we live to honor the Lord; and if we die, we die to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this reason Christ died and returned to life, so that he might become the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Why, then, do you criticize your brother? Or why do you despise your brother? For all of us will stand before the judgment seat of God.

For it is written, "As certainly as I live, declares the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will praise God."[/i] (6)

1) Isa 29:16
2) Isa 64:8
3) Rom 1:18-25
4) Rom 1:26-32
5) Jos 24:15
6) Rom 14:8-11


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/6/15 23:12Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: I need hope

DDP

Your post here has grabbed my attention very much and caused a lot of reflection, a lot of questions, searching and prayer.

A couple of questions and pardon the disordering, likely this will come out in that fashion:

Quote:
I know the Bible...


To be of some help, what is your background, upbringing, 'churched'?, 'unchurched'? in other words, 'where are you coming [i]from[/i]'?
Quote:
I have some serious questions about God and christianity.


Wonderful! Welcome to the club! Think you couldn't do much better than to come wrestle with the rest of us here. There is a vast reservoir of thought collectively where you find yourself and by and large there is no fear of 'sacred cows', traditions for traditions sake, 'easy believe-ism', nor phoniness, but real people with real hearts who are looking for truth, honesty, reality. Hanging around here long enough will bear this out. Nor is there a fear of 'being found out', the challenges that come are often misconstrued as antagonistic and at times that does happen, but if I may say so the essence would be in Jesus' own words:

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Quote:
I know here someone can state their case.


And you are correct, there are a few testimonies up that might take a little digging, [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewforum.php?forum=44&875]Miracles that follow the plow[/url] and just perusing the site through all the various discussions will show forth what we believe individually and 'corporately' with just an open an honest consideration and at times reading between the lines at what true motives are being expressed.

With that though is some forbearance with everyone. What is written does not always adequately express things, especially spiritual matters that often defy explanation 'rationally'. Some things are just caught deep down into the marrow of our being, where we can only acknowledge it because it 'fits' for lack of a better term. "You know that you know" even if you can't properly explain it.

Many and maybe even most things can or should be 'gleaned', some things we are not ready for depending on whatever state of mind we find ourselves, something that I have found out by long exasperation. Times when some things just need to be put on a shelf for the time being, another area more prominent and necessary to be dealt with in the moment.

But, to get anywhere there must be a laying down of some preconceptions or at least a willingness to do so. Surely we all come with our own idea's, thoughts, life experience and so forth that colors are perceptions and yet if we want to learn anything at all we must be able to [i]consider[/i] without making our own thoughts the final rule of arbitration. So with that primarily you will find that 'we' hold the word of God in high esteem as the final rule on all matters and very much the wrestling is with the text, what was meant, what 'applies' or more so why we chaff at it... and more importantly, now that we know certain things, what of it? Something about being exposed that makes us want to run away, but to where?

Psa 139:6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.
Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Psa 139:9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
Psa 139:11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
Psa 139:12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
Psa 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
Psa 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

Pride is deadly and the biggest issue there is in my estimation, why? Because even after learning much and realizing the truth of that old adage about "[i]the more I learn, the more I realize I know next to nothing[/i]" it still raises it's ugly head. Can sense it dragging me off into many areas, selfishness, a want of sympathy at times, "what about [i]me[/i]?", "what about [i]my[/i] desires", "what about [i]my[/i] 'unjust' suffering?" and a whole host of malady's.

Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Something entirely humbling about the realization of WHO it is we have to do with. Surely we have been exhorted in scripture ...

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

And maybe in answer to the question you posed you are partly right if you are a new creation, a blood bought child of God, to come [i]boldly[/i] but if there is any true understanding of that once you get there your 'boldness' will evaporate from the gaze of Him... "[/i]...who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire,..." Rev 2:18.

In fact this time yesterday in praying started to dwell on this, what it might be like to be in the absolute presence of Holiness. To see Jesus as He is, in true living color, physically before my eyes. Could I bear it? He that [i]knows[/i] [b]all[/b] men? And the very secrets and thoughts of their hearts, my heart? All throughout scripture when there was a confrontation on this kind of level it was always met with fear and rightfully so, it is exposure in the truest sense. Isaiah's unclean lips, Peter's [i]"Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord."[/i], John's;

Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Rev 1:17 [b]And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead.[/b]

The beauty and remarkable thing is that to a true and contrite heart always the response:

And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, [b]Fear not[/b]; I am the first and the last:

This is our hope.

More than willing to come alongside and wrestle along with you here, not with each other but with the questions. We do hold to just some basic mannerisms here, this is 'home' to many in one sense and it is usually just in conduct that will raise the ire, rudeness is not tolerated, nor slander or character assassination. Just as well, forgiveness and clarification, apologies when needed, welcomed and encouraged. Hard questions are welcomed and that you want to deal with them honestly and get at the root of the matter, well again, so do many here, you are in good company. But there has to be some give and take and serious consideration for all with patience as things develop, replies are not always instantaneous and like to believe that often it is because there may be some serious thinking being done before responding.

And some of us just ramble... ;-)

P.S. All that came just before this that I posted in this thread and can't recall if it was mentioned...but 'gleaning' was the only intent, it may have practically no use whatsoever to you or it may, not sure where you are coming from nor was it an accusation.

Lastly, you are amongst some very serious brethren here, some have been practically to hell and back and have given over their entire beings to the Lord even as it is being worked out. You are in the midst of some true believers, some with many years of mileage tread through this world bent on destroying itself. There is a seriousness and gravity to what we believe, eternal destinations at stake. There is hope brother and if you can't find it here briefly, stick around long enough and it will certainly find you out.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and surely the Lord Himself led you here.




_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/6/16 9:59Profile
ddp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/15
Posts: 8


 Re:

crsschk...

To answer your question, I was not saved until 2002, I was 16, I am 19, now. I went to First Assembly of God in Jefferson City, MO.
I was loyal to the rituals, however, questions arose.
My heart is NOT to refute God or Christ, for they are far too holy. I just wanted to know that I knew that I knew...
And your gentleness is what I needed. Other posts didn't answer my questions so much as debate them.

THAT is what I wanted... I appreciate it, so much. Last night, I talked about the one thing that didn't click with my cousin.

It didn't click how God would condemn those w/ no chance to repent, how is that even fair?

It was revealed to me that if they haven't had the chance, then they are saved by grace.
If they had the chance then REFUSED...
that is when they are condemned.

 2005/6/16 13:08Profile





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