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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Pr. 18:24

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StarofG0D
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Joined: 2007/10/28
Posts: 1232
United States

 Pr. 18:24

Does anyone know the direct translation to pr. 18:24?

It's different in the NASB and kjv.

New American Standard Bible
A man of too many friends comes to ruin, But there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother.

King James Bible
A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.

Thank you!!


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Michelle

 2017/5/22 10:22Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5380
NC, USA

 Re: Pr. 18:24

Either one makes sense, but the stark difference in the translations is scandalous because it is not two different ways of saying the same thing. They say quite different things.


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Todd

 2017/5/22 14:25Profile
dolfan
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Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

Good question. I hadn't seen this difference. We all like Bible Hub and Blue Letter Bible I believe. Pure word studies support the modern translations and not the KJV. The phrase translated in KJV about making friends/being friendly is from a Hebrew phrase which does not include a word about being friendly, but uses a word about afflicting or causing harm. A root word inside that word, a possible pun in Hebrew, shares a root for the word friend, but that is about it.

Funny, but I saw a defender of the KJV on this verse say the modern translations translate it too literally. Irony there.

So, maybe an unusual example of KJV inferiority on a particular verse.


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Tim

 2017/5/22 16:06Profile
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 Re:

Horrors.


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Todd

 2017/5/22 17:34Profile
beekpr
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Posts: 83


 Re: Pr. 18:24

I looked it up in Luther's German translation and it simply said, ,"A true friend loves more and stands more firmly at one's side than a brother." (my translation from German)

David

 2017/5/22 21:48Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Very interesting. I am typically a KJV guy since it is what I grew up with and has, in my opinion, the best study tools available and is usually spot on in my opinion. But I am not sure that the context makes the most sense in the KJV here after looking at the interlinear and a few other translations. It seems there is some disagreement about the Hebrew words translated in the KJV as "must show himself friendly". They are very similar. Here is the translation that seems to make the most sense to me.

A man with many friends can still be ruined, but there is a friend that sticks closer than a brother. OR A person who has friends may be harmed by them, but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother.

I guess in my own words it seems to carry this meaning, friends are not a good substitute for the one true friend who sticks closer than a brother. Many who you call friends may fail you or do evil to you, but the one that is closer than a brother will not do so.


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Travis

 2017/5/23 7:58Profile
Bernie7
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New Albany, Indiana

 Re: What the ESV seems to suggest...

The ESV reads,"A man of many companions may come to ruin, but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother."
It seems to suggest basically what twayneb is saying, but with this added thought: You may have many "companions" (mere aquaintances or friendly persons with whom you associate), but ought to look to persons (often few in number) whom you know you can really trust and have proved themselves reliable in times of potential "ruin." It seems to be saying something similar to Prov. 27:10, "Do not forsake your friend and your father's friend, and do not go to your brother's house in the day of your calamity. Better is a neighbor who is near than a brother who is far away." You know who you can trust (not necessarily family) and should look to them for help. A father's friend will likely have demonstrated his faithfulness over the "long haul" (see also 2 Sam. 9, David's kindness to Jonathan's son Mephibosheth).


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Bernie

 2017/5/23 8:31Profile
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 Re:

I think we can agree what the non-KJV versions mean- makes perfect sense. The problem is that the KJV renders an entirely different meaning, at least in part. While the substance of the KJV is true (be a friend to make a friend) that idea is entirely absent from the other versions.


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Todd

 2017/5/23 8:35Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Todd: totally agreed. I trust the KJV. I believe it is probably one of the best translations that exists. But that does not mean that he translators could not have missed it here. Study to show yourself approved, right?


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Travis

 2017/5/23 8:58Profile
StarofG0D
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Posts: 1232
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 Re:

Thanks everyone for your input!!

Blessings


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Michelle

 2017/5/24 11:28Profile





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