| Where did the doctrine of the Pretrib Rapture Come From???|
I have always understood the doctrine of the secret rapture, where believers were snatched away before the 7 year tribulation, originated with J. N. Derby. Then was made popular by C. I. Scofield.
However I have recently heard this doctrine of a snatching away of believers before the tribulation was developed by the Catholic Jesuits. Anyone familiar with this?
| 2017/5/4 4:02|
| Re: Where did the doctrine the Pretrib Rapture Come From???|
I think this is a loaded question in particular using the terms "developed" and "originated" which are disconcerting to pre trib believers.
We have to discuss our points in relation to whats in the Bible and is it in the Bible or not.
Again their are many great(although none great compares to Christ) Christians who believe in the Post Tribulation and their are many great Christians who believe in the Pre Tribulation,all brothers and sisters in Christ,
Their are downsides to believing in Post Tribulation and their are downsides in believing in Pre Tribulation,their are also upsides,
| 2017/5/4 6:23||Profile|
| Re: Staff |
We are warned in scripture to be aware of deception in the end times. Paul writes to the Thessalonians,
... Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter, as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lowliness lawlessness is revealed the son of destruction who opposes and exalts himself above every socalled God or object of worship so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God...2 Thes. 2:1-4
The scriptures warn as there will be a falling away. That would presuppose people who hold to the truth of Jesus will believe a delusion. Again Paul writes,
... For this reason, God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that all may be judged, who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness...2 Thes. 2:11
I quote the above verses before I post a link to this article below. I believe this article, as well as other articles, I have googled this morning show that the pretrib rapture origins are rooted in the work of the Jesuits.
| 2017/5/4 7:43|
Campbell River, B.C.
| Re: |
I agree completely staff. Many great christians have believed pre trib, some post trib, some (like Finney) were actually post millenial. I am pre trib myself; I don't think I am under some sort of delusion. Read what Darby and some of his associates, like Anthony Norris Groves, wrote. They were full of the love of Christ; they weren't cult leaders, like some have depicted them.
| 2017/5/4 8:04||Profile|
| Re: |
Brothers respectfully, I disagree. In reading about the origins of the pretrib rapture. Three names cone forward. All Jesuits; Francisco Ribera 1537-
1591, Jesuit doctor of theology. Also Cardinal Robert Bellarmine, a Jesuit scholar, 1543-1621. And finally, Manual de Lacanza, 1731-1802. These 3 men planted the seeds of what we call the pre trib rapture. Later, this teaching was picked up by Edward Irving, J.N. Darby, and C. I. Scofield; all Protestants.
The RCC planted the seeds of the pretrib rapture into the Protestant church. The attempt of the RCC was to take away attention from itself as being the antichrist and its institution.
Link to article below gives further history.
| 2017/5/4 8:34|
| Re: |
I believe that one can be genuine and be genuinely wrong. I believe that Darby and Finney would fall into that category in regards to pre-trib. In my mind it takes nothing away from these men to believe that they were wrong. None of us have a perfect doctrine and all of us have something that we believe that will turn out not to be incorrect. Now, some errors are larger than other and have more consequences. If pre-trib teaching has lulled much of the Body into a bed of ease thinking that there is no tribulation to go through, then that error is a dangerous one and should be guarded against.........bro Frank
| 2017/5/4 10:44|
| Re: |
If pre-trib teaching has lulled much of the Body into a bed of ease thinking that there is no tribulation to go through, then that error is a dangerous one and should be guarded against.........bro Frank
Agreed brother. So agree.
I remember I was in a fellowship where I quoted a scripture. A couple was standing next to me. His young wife remarked that if she were in prison she would want to be next door to me in a jail cell. She said I would encourage her by the word I had stored up in my heart. Her husband remarked to her that she would not have to worry about memorizing scripture. For we were going to be raptured before the tribulation.
I'm afraid comments, such as the above, are all too common in the body of Christ for those who hold to a pre trib rapture. I do believe there are those who hold to this doctrine who are being lulled into a false sense of ease.
| 2017/5/4 12:04|
| Re: Does the New Testament Teach 2 Returns of Christ |
As the times grow closer to the return of Jesus. We must ask the question, does the New Testament teach 2 comings of Christ?
Those who hold to a pretrib rapture would say that Jesus is coming secretly to take home his bride. Then, after the 7 year tribulation, there will be another appearance of Christ to take home the tribulation saints and to judge the wicked.
Where on earth is this taught in the New Testament? And for that matter, did the early church ever hold to this view?
| 2017/5/5 10:26|
| Re: The Wheat and the Tares |
Matthew 13:36-43New American Standard Bible (NASB)The Tares Explained
36 Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.” 37 And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is end of the age; and the reapers are angels. 40 So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41 He will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears let him hear.
Jesus tells the parable of tares sown among the wheat (Mat. 13:24-30). Then gives the explanation above. In the above verses Jesus teaches one coming judgment of the righteous and the wicked. If he were coming to secretly rapture his bride before the tribulation. Would he not have taught it here?
Ok. For those who hold to the pre trib view what am I missing?
Why are the wheat not taken out before the tares? A pre tribe rapture model would say pull the wheat up secretly before the final harvest. Leave the tares. Then maybe some more wheat who once were tares will grow. Then do a final harvest of removing the tares and harvesting hopefully some wheat.
As ridiculous as this sounds. This is what a pre trib rapture model would look like in the above parable.
I don't think Jesus held to a pre trib rapture.
| 2017/5/5 11:07|
Campbell River, B.C.
| Re: |
"Jesus stated in Matthew 24:42,44 to “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come… So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.” Not only do believers in Christ not know when to expect Him, but the Father Himself seems to have left Jesus out on the exact time His Son is to return. As Jesus stated in Matthew 24:36, “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” These and other verses (Mat. 24:36,42,44,50; 25:13; 1 Thes. 4:18; Tit. 2:13; 1 Jn. 2:28; 3:2-3) indicate that Jesus’ arrival will come when nobody expects it.
The Second Coming, on the other hand, is preceded by many events, such as the rise of the Antichrist (Rev. 12:13-17; Zech; 13:7-9), a treaty with Israel (Dan. 9:27), the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple (Mat. 24:15; 2 Thess. 2:3-4; Rev. 11:1-2), as well as plagues and judgments and persecutions destroying most of the world’s population (Rev. 6-18). The Book of Revelation reports these events as occurring during the 7-year Tribulation, which Revelation reveals precede the Second Coming."
And please also remember, I respect all differing viewpoints on this subject. Keep in mind that we can "understand all mysteries, and all knowledge", yet without love, we are nothing. We must "endeavour to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace." Ephesians 4:3.
| 2017/5/5 11:29||Profile|