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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Bible Answer Man' converts to Eastern Orthodoxy

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 Re: Likely to continue as a critic of Israel

That's not to say that Israel is or should be immune from any and all criticism. It sure isn't doing everything right but on the behavioral scale Israel has always acted several steps up the ladder from its neighbors and the way they treat their own people and other peoples. Hangegraaff has come down pretty hard against Israel and this seems to be a tradition of sorts in the Orthodox communion so he will find some common ground there. In the future, the Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican faith and many in the Evangelical world will end up being some of Israel's strongest critics and adversaries. Mr. Hangegraaff has already shown signs of belonging to that camp.


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David Winter

 2017/4/14 10:26Profile
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 Docs

As bizarre as the actions of Mr. Hangegraaff are they are not nearly as bizarre as Joel Richardson's former colleague and co-author, Walid Shoebat and his conversion and defense of Roman Catholicism.

 2017/4/14 11:35Profile









 Re:

Hanegraaff writes..........

"His journey to Orthodoxy began with a trip to China, when “I saw Chinese Christians who were deeply in love with the Lord, and I learned that while they may not have had as much intellectual acumen or knowledge as I did, they had life,” he said.

On the flight back, Hanegraaff wondered if he was even a Christian. “I was comparing my ability to communicate truth with their deep and abiding love for the Lord Jesus Christ.”

Here we see a man struggle with the notion that true salvation has nothing to do with intellect. A head knowledge and mere mental assents to abstract truth is not, nor ever has been salvation. There are literally millions just like Hanegraaff in Christendom.

He further writes...........

"I’ve been impacted by the whole idea of knowing Jesus Christ, experiencing Jesus Christ, and partaking of the graces of Jesus Christ through the Eucharist or the Lord’s table,” he said. “Nothing has changed in my faith.”

And there we have it, life is, apparantly, to be found in the "Eucharist," the key fundamental tenet of Catholicism. How many millions of saints were martyred over their thoughts on "The Eucharist." Now theologians will rush in and tell you about transubstansiation and consubstansiation, do not be fooled brothers and sisters. The Lord Jesus dwells in the hearts of every genuine saint. He does not dwell in a piece of bread and neither does He dwell around a piece of bread.

If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved Romans 10:9.

We must believe in our hearts unto salvation. In genuine salvation there is a change of heart. What Hanegraaff is involved in, and always has been, is religion and the path of all religions undoubtedly leads to the champion of all religions, Rome! ...............bro Frank

 2017/4/14 11:36
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 Re: Docs

Well, that leaves Joel Richardson in the clear.


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David Winter

 2017/4/14 12:34Profile
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 Re: Docs

The point of my response was to show that ones view of Israel pertaining to eschatology is irrelevant when it comes to discussing there conversion to Catholicism.

clarity

 2017/4/14 13:13Profile
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 Re: Perhaps

I take your point. But be ready and forewarned of a coming storm against Israel.

Funny thing, I went to a Orthodox service a few times and it was among the most beautiful services I have ever been to even in charismatic circles. I knew I likely didn't agree with their doctrines, and I don't agree with all of them, but he ancient songs being sung in a Gregorian type of style among others was absolutely beautiful. The artwork and paintings and intricately carved wood were awesome and took on more meaning afterwards when a man explained to each aspect of these and the reason behind them. I'm not a believer that art work does not belong in churches. One of the first things a member asked me afterwards was if I read scripture on a regular basis. Sort of eye opening. And as goes without saying, Jesus Christ of Nazareth is my chief prize and object of desire. Rubbing shoulders with these Orthodox a bit though was a learning experience. No harm at all.


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David Winter

 2017/4/14 13:43Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Funny thing, I went to a Orthodox service a few times and it was among the most beautiful services I have ever been to even in charismatic circles. I knew I likely didn't agree with their doctrines, and I don't agree with all of them, but he ancient songs being sung in a Gregorian type of style among others was absolutely beautiful. The artwork and paintings and intricately carved wood were awesome and took on more meaning afterwards when a man explained to each aspect of these and the reason behind them. I'm not a believer that art work does not belong in churches. One of the first things a member asked me afterwards was if I read scripture on a regular basis. Sort of eye opening. And as goes without saying, Jesus Christ of Nazareth is my chief prize and object of desire. Rubbing shoulders with these Orthodox a bit though was a learning experience. No harm at all.



Glad to hear this approach brother as I have had a similar experience with my run-in's with orthodox believers.

One time I was distributing tracts on a corner of a street to business men during a lunch time. I believe the Gospel is not just for people who go to bars but for business men, families etc. I was in prayer and felt the Lord was with me, I looked obviously strange admist the business people in suits, I had a simple white long shirt not tucked in, long beard and tracts about jesus christ (mini-bibles essentially).

I noticed one person watching me across the street and came towards me, I thought he was a seeker and offered him a gospel booklet. He told me he was a believer and started to share a very encouraging word from God that encouraged me alot, as I remember there was alot of spiritual warfare and I was having a hard time doing what I was doing so it was a timely encouragement.

I asked him what church he went to after awhile and he said without blinking "orthodox church". He was very kind and I sensed Christ with the man. I never ended attending his church as he did invite me at the end in a very gracious way. Experiences like this opened my eyes more about this "hidden" people in the western culture.



Towards brother Frank's comments, what I would disagree with is lumping Orthodox with Rome, as they are totally different things. If researched they are actually opposite of each other and protestants have alot more in common with orhtodox then roman catholics. Rome split from the Orthodox church in AD 1054. And protestants split from Rome in 1500's.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2017/4/14 14:08Profile









 Re:

...His journey to Orthodoxy began with a trip to China, when “I saw Chinese Christians who were deeply in love with the Lord, and I learned that while they may not have had as much intellectual acumen or knowledge as I did, they had life,” he said...

I think our brother missed something about the Chinese church. They are a church under persecution. The reason the Chinese church endures and even thrives in persecution is because of intimacy with Jesus. Not because they are members of the Orthodox Church. This is why I keep posing the question. Is not Jesus Himself enough for Hank Hannagraff?

Bro Blaine

 2017/4/14 15:52
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 Re:

Quote:
I think our brother missed something about the Chinese church. They are a church under persecution. The reason the Chinese church endures and even thrives in persecution is because of intimacy with Jesus. Not because they are members of the Orthodox Church. This is why I keep posing the question. Is not Jesus Himself enough for Hank Hannagraff?




I personally think Hannegraf saw the spirit of "worship" in the chinese church, they celebrate communion every service in most house churches and they usually do it very meaningfully with tears.

Perhaps that gave him a sense of importance towards communion and how modern evangelical churches in the west have side-stepped that practice by-in-large.

We are not missing Christ if we are doing the very things he reminds and tells us to do. We cannot have Jesus only as the NT and OT come also with belief in the Son of God and all the traditions and commands and practices of early believers in the Scriptures. So seeing something of Christ in the communion is probably right, how far we take that is another story, but treating it as mundane is obviously not in accord with the New Testament.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2017/4/14 16:05Profile









 Re:

...On the flight back, Hanegraaff wondered if he was even a Christian. “I was comparing my ability to communicate truth with their deep and abiding love for the Lord Jesus Christ.”
He began to study the work of Watchman Nee and the idea of theosis (the Eastern Orthodox teaching on seeking union with God), which led him back to the early Christian church...

Again, our brother missed something regarding Watchman Nee. Watchman Nee was a believer who was imprisoned by the Chinese Communists for over 20 years . He died in prison. Because he spoke so much about Jesus Christ, the Chinese communists cut out his tongue. This is when the Lord opened up the writing ministry of the brother we call Watchman Nee. Again, it was because of intimacy with Jesus that Watchman Knee gave us his incredible books.

How our brother, Hank Hannagraff could be exposed to the persecuted church in China. And read the works of Watchman Nee. And jump to the Orthodox Church is one connection. I am missing.

It is only through an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ can one truly be satisfied. Joining the Orthodox ir the Roman Catholic church or any other organized church will not satisfy the longing of one's heart. That longing which is Jesus dwelling in one's heart through faith.

Our persecuted brothers and sisters in places like China do not have religious churches such as the Orthodox or even the Catholic church. But our persecuted brothers and sisters do have access to a relationship with Jesus Christ. They know Him through the Holy Spirit and by communing with him in prayer. This makes Jesus all the more precious to them. Thus, the word becomes all the more precious to them.

I think it is sad that Hank Hanegraaff feels he has to go to the Orthodox church to find a deeper relationship with Jesus. When all he has to do is call out to the Lord Jesus Christ and develop an intimate relationship with him alone.

Simply my thoughts.

Bro Blaine

 2017/4/14 16:08





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