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DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

  Acts 2-5 and the Seeker friendly church

I want to post this question to this group because I will not be able to get an answer from the original source.

A few days ago, while enroute to work, I was listening to a segment of wretch radio with Todd Friel and the subject was the seeker friendly church. It is from April 4. He played part of a sermon from John MacArthur and John talked about how some churches are turning into seeker sensitive churches but scripture says there is no one who seeks after God.

Well, he took them to the book of Acts from chapter 2-5. He said that in these chapters God performed alot of miracles, signs and wonders and people came and got converted but it began to get out of hand and people were coming to the 'church' not for God but because of the signs and wonders. God cut them off via the killing of Annias and Sapphira. As a result many people left and only those who really wanted God stayed.

When you read those chapters I am not reading that. I see aspects of that it could be possible but I am wondering how MacArthur is coming up with this explanation from the book of Acts.

What are your thoughts?


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John

 2017/4/11 17:37Profile









 Re: Acts 2-5 and the Seeker friendly church

Acts 5:12-16New American Standard Bible (NASB)

12 [a]At the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were taking place among the people; and they were all with one accord in Solomon’s portico. 13 But none of the rest dared to associate with them; however, the people held them in high esteem. 14 And all the more believers in the Lord, multitudes of men and women, were constantly added to their number, 15 to such an extent that they even carried the sick out into the streets and laid them on cots and pallets, so that when Peter came by at least his shadow might fall on any one of them. 16 Also the [b]people from the cities in the vicinity of Jerusalem were coming together, bringing people who were sick [c]or afflicted with unclean spirits, and they were all being healed.

I don't see how one can arrive at that conclusion given the verses above. Particularly verse 14 that says,

...And all the more believers in the Lord, multitudes of men and women, were constantly added to their number...

And this right after the incident with Ananias and Saphira.

Anyway if JM is teaching what the OP says it is not correct.

My 2 cents worth.

Bro Blaine



 2017/4/11 19:18
romanchog
Member



Joined: 2011/10/27
Posts: 338


 Re: Acts 2-5 and the Seeker friendly church

I don't see what John MacArthur is saying in Acts either. I am not sure how he is reading this.


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Natalie

 2017/4/11 20:21Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

My initial thought was how is he getting that out of that text and then I wondered if he read some history that we don't know about. Then I thought 'Wait, is he inserting something into the text that isn't there but sounds good enough?'

JM is an esteemed pastor in the reformed camp. You raise questions about him and they will crucify you. I am going to find a way to contact JM or even Phil Johnson about this message to find out more of where he is getting this injection from.


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John

 2017/4/11 21:04Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: Acts 2-5 and the Seeker friendly church

In Christianity, cessationism is the doctrine that spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues, prophecy and healing ceased with the apostolic age. This is generally opposed to continuationism, which teaches that the Holy Spirit may bestow the spiritual gifts on persons other than the original twelve apostles at any time. Wikipedia

I believe JM embraces much of the cessation doctrines and so generally speaking justifies that position when it comes to the signs and wonders spoken of in the NT as it relates to the church today. People generally view scripture through the lens of the doctrines they embrace and they will work to make them fit into their system of thought and belief.


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D.Miller

 2017/4/11 21:40Profile
DEADn
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Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Quote:

I believe JM embraces much of the cessation doctrines and so generally speaking justifies that position when it comes to the signs and wonders spoken of in the NT as it relates to the church today. People generally view scripture through the lens of the doctrines they embrace and they will work to make them fit into their system of thought and belief.



I agree and I am often reminded of something that happened to me a few years ago regarding this. I was out running and I heard the word 'Seduction' spoken to me over the radio playing in my ear. This kind of thing reminds of that instance in asking..............is JM doing a seduction of scripture with this interpretation because it suits reformed theology and establishes a precident for cessationsim?

I like some of JM's preaching but at the same time I am on guard when I listen because of 'seduction'. I find myself more careful than ever when listening to any preaching because any one of us can be subtle seduced away from the Gospel.


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John

 2017/4/11 23:03Profile
dolfan
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Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1727
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

There is a cottage industry around John MacArthur, Steve Lawson and R.C. Sproul. It is almost like the "Gaither Family", sitting round on a stage and smiling supportively while each of them performs. These "conferences" are lucrative promotions, extremely gratifying for the performers and over time tend to become more than just echo chambers. They become incubators for innovation on Scripture. The strange thing is that these particular personalities front on the theme of sola Scriptura. A reading of Acts 2-5 such as the one proposed here is pure innovation, an aberration, one with an agenda, being designed to support the idea that gifts in the church are no longer. It is a disgusting little piece of work.


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Tim

 2017/4/12 7:16Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
In Christianity, cessationism is the doctrine that spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues, prophecy and healing ceased with the apostolic age. This is generally opposed to continuationism, which teaches that the Holy Spirit may bestow the spiritual gifts on persons other than the original twelve apostles at any time. Wikipedia



A very small difference in focus can, eventually, lead to a very gross error. If we focus on a denominational, doctrinal distinction, we will eventually need to re-interpret or mis-interpret some portion of scripture to maintain our own man-made interpretation. It is subtle, but it will happen. On the other hand, if we are willing to allow God to change our own human opinions based upon what He shows us from His word, we will stay right in the middle of the road that we are supposed to be on.

I can look back over my walk with God and I can see many adjustments that have had to happen in my opinions about doctrine. I have been wrong in the past. I am certain that I have some wrong opinions now, I hope less now than in the past. But I am determined to hold my own opinions loosely and to hold the truth of His word tightly, so that the truth of His word can freely adjust my opinions.

The danger comes when we go to scripture seeking "proof texts" for our own positions or when we read scripture in the context of our own opinions, drawing conclusions from the light of our own ideas.


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Travis

 2017/4/12 8:29Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

The interpretation McArthur seems to be making is really strange.


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Travis

 2017/4/12 8:30Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

https://www.wretchedradio.com/media/free-podcast/the-wretched-segment-of-the-day-march-04-2017

Here is the clip of what I am talking about. JM's clip starts about 5:30 mark. It is only 12 minutes for the whole thing. It sounds good what JM is saying but when you investigate it it is very fishy.

Is this seduction of text?


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John

 2017/4/12 8:49Profile





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