SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : An Ends or a Means

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 )
PosterThread
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 657
Australia

 Re:

The "end" : "The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen" (Rev. 22:21).

The "means": The way of the cross -- end of self-life.


Yes, in me, in me He dwelleth --
I in Him and He in me!
And my empty soul He filleth
Now and through eternity.
-- H. Bonar






_________________
Jade

 2017/4/9 21:59Profile
Jeremy221
Member



Joined: 2009/11/7
Posts: 1447


 Re: Eternal Purpose

Ephesians 3:10 KJV
[10] To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

This is the end to which we have been redeemed and daily seek sanctification through communion and fellowship with brethren. Through faith we bear a good report, we are witnesses not only to men among whom we live but the Principalities and Powers under whose wisdom they live their lives. Bearing the cross daily is an individual's response and demonstration of living by the wisdom of displayed in Christ. Rejoicing in trial because we have hope in the Word of God rather than the wisdom of the age is a demonstration that this generation will be judged. As a body continually building each other through teaching, preaching, rebuke and fellowship so that no one is lead astray and so that we look for the blessed hope is a testimony of the truthfulness of God's Word. Not going to the secular courts to settle disputes is a sign that we believe the Lord that we have been endowed with the wisdom to pass righteous judgement by the Holy Spirit. Provoking each other to good works is a sign that we believe that treasure in heaven is eternal and cannot be taken or destroyed. Rebuking each other daily is a sign that we believe the warnings of Christ about the punishments for the unfaithful.

 2017/4/10 6:06Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1262
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: sister Jade

So are you saying that grace itself is the end of Gods eternal purpose for man?

Also are you saying the means being the "way of the cross" is itself without grace?

Hoping to understand what you are saying:)


_________________
Fletcher

 2017/4/10 8:26Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1262
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Jeremy

Well said brother!


_________________
Fletcher

 2017/4/10 8:30Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 657
Australia

 Re: Fletcher

"So are you saying that grace itself is the end of Gods eternal purpose for man?”

“Also are you saying the means being the "way of the cross" is itself without grace?”

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The grace of THE LORD JESUS HIMSELF is the end of God’s eternal purpose for man. We are to be conformed to the image of Christ (Rom. 8:28-29). Christ is to be all, and in all” (Col. 3:10-11). Christ in us is the hope of glory (Col. 1:27).

We were barred from this because of

1.Sin which must be forgiven for man to be reconciled to God

2.The old man which has a mind set on the flesh which is enmity to God and is not able to submit to the law of God.

3.Satan and the world that rule over men.

Man has no power and ability to free himself from all these and be saved.

The cross opens the way for us i.e. the means to the end.

At the cross the Lord Jesus shed His blood for the forgiveness of our sins. At the cross the Lord Jesus gathered all of us into Himself and when He died we all died in Him. And at the cross the world was also crucified and principalities and powers destroyed so these will no more rule over us.

Resurrection comes AFTER the cross.

At the resurrection, when the Lord Jesus was raised from the dead we were all in Him and raised from the dead in Him and made alive in Him to God. And now we are in Christ and Christ lives in us as our eternal life. (1 John 5:11-12).

GRACE STRETCHES ALL THE WAY FROM THE CROSS INTO ENDLESS ETERNITY AND THE GRACE OF GOD IS THE LORD JESUS HIMSELF!

“For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace” (John 1:16).

We receive the grace of redemption when we receive Jesus Himself as our redemption. We receive the grace of righteousness when we receive Jesus Himself as our righteousness. We receive the grace of holiness when we receive Jesus Himself as our holiness. We receive the grace of wisdom when we receive Jesus Himself as our wisdom. (1 Cor. 1:30). And we receive the grace of eternal life when we receive Jesus Himself as our life (1 John 5:11-12). We receive all these graces or gifts by faith not works (Eph. 2:8).

Union with Christ is absolutely essential. He is the Vine. All that are in Him, the Vine, can and will flow into us when we, the branches, are attached to Him and abiding in Him. Apart from Him we can do nothing for
we cannot redeem ourselves, cannot make ourselves righteous, cannot make ourselves holy as God is holy, cannot acquire God’s wisdom by ourselves, cannot give ourselves eternal life.

Thus the Bible ends with this triumphant good news: “The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen” (Rev. 22:21). This, I think, sums up the whole Bible message that is God’s good news to us.

“….the free GIFT of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom. 6:23)!


T. Austin Sparks:

“Have we got settled on this? We take so long to learn these basic elementary lessons. We do still cling to some sort of idea that we can produce something, and all our miserable days are simply the result of still hoping that we can in some way provide the Lord with something. Not being able to find it, but breaking down all the time, we get miserable, perfectly miserable. It takes us so long to come to the place where we do fully and finally settle this matter, that if we lived as long as ever man lived on this earth, we shall not be able to contribute one iota which can be acceptable to God, and which He can take and use for our salvation, for our sanctification, for our glorification, not a bit. All that He can use is His Son, and the measure of our ultimate glory will be the measure of Christ in us, just that. There will be differences in glory, as one thing differs from another. One glory of the sun, another of the moon, another of the stars. There will be differences in degree of glory, and the difference in degree of glory ultimately will be according to the measure of Christ that each one of us severally has. That in turn depends upon how much you and I by faith are really making Christ the basis of our life, the very basis of our living, of our being, how much the principle of these familiar words has its application in our case, 'Not what I am, but what Thou art'. Christ is all the glory, 'the Lamb is all the glory in Immanuel's land'.

“Beloved friends, whatever you go away with, go away with this, that from God's standpoint, the glory of life depends entirely upon our faith apprehension, appropriation and appreciation of Christ, and there is no glory at all for us now or in the time to come but on that ground and on that line. I know how simple that is, how elementary, but oh, it is such a governing thing. Glory—that the Lord shall be glorified in us. What greater thing could happen than that the Lord should be glorified in us? The glory of God is bound up with the resurrection, and resurrection is God's unique and sole prerogative. So that if God is to be glorified in us, you and I have to live on Him as the resurrection and the life from day to day, and know Him as that as we go through life. “



Edit to add:

In the phrase "the grace of the Lord Jesus", THE LORD JESUS is the object of the grace.


Edit to add:

Andrew Murray said this:

(1) Everything in us must be like God.
(2) Everything can only be like God by partaking of His nature.
(3) Everything must have the nature of God.
(4) Nothing can be like God but God Himself.

My thought:

Therefore, the only way for us to be conformed to the image of Christ is to have Christ Himself dwelling in us and filling all of us with Himself. Then we will surely be the exact image of Him. The REAL Him, not an imitation that will surely have spots and wrinkles. God does not give us grace to produce Christ in us by our own works. Christ in us is the free gift or grace of God to us. How good is our God!



_________________
Jade

 2017/4/12 0:25Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1262
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: sister Jade

Thank you for answering and helping to clarify your earlier statements for me :)

Also I appreciate your putting the grace of God to good use and disagreeing without being disrespectful, that is a most virtuous attribute:)

Having said that it seems there is a desire on your part to rehash a difference in defining grace from a previous thread some time ago... if I am mistaking you please forgive me but I have no heart to argue or cause division.

As for your central point "The grace of God is Jesus" is a statement I've heard many times in different forms, another is "grace is a person and His name is Jesus", etc... I understand many people hold this to be true tho I cannot find it in the scriptures. In fact I found quite a different thing to be taught by the word of God.

You say;" Therefore, the only way for us to be conformed to the image of Christ is to have Christ Himself dwelling in us and filling all of us with Himself. Then we will surely be the exact image of Him. The REAL Him, not an imitation that will surely have spots and wrinkles. God does not give us grace to produce Christ in us by our own works. Christ in us is the free gift or grace of God to us. How good is our God!"

Indeed sister Jade He is quite good to us all, so patient and kind not wanting any to perish but all to come unto repentance-
Your wording is interesting, you say "God does not give us grace to produce Christ in our own life" and that is an interesting way to word that sentiment because if I were to say anything contrary, one could say I am advocating a "woks based" position which wouldn't be true but because this statement is insulated it cannot be dealt with directly to expose the error contained within it...

14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need

And

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.



_________________
Fletcher

 2017/4/12 9:06Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 657
Australia

 Re: Fletcher

There are many views on grace and holiness.

My own beliefs are close to those of Andrew Murray and T. Austin Sparks. They are two of my most favourite authors.

I respect that yours are different.

An author most strongly against what I believe was still gracious to say this: "The last day will show who is right and who is wrong. In the meantime, I am quite certain that to exhibit bitterness and coldness towards those who cannot conscientiously work with us is to prove ourselves very ignorant of real holiness."

My own belief is that the most important thing of all is to keep our eyes fixed on Jesus and abide in Him. I also believe that even if the doctrines we have acquired are wrong, the Holy Spirit is able to produce the right life in us if we are led by Him.

I have spoken NOT to put you down. But I have spoken because I have found a Christianity that has brought me joy and peace and I am eager to share that with anyone.

Proverbs 18:19 - "A brother offended is more unyielding than a strong city, and quarreling is like the bars of a castle" (ESV).

The greatest thing is love.

1 John 3:23 - "And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us."





_________________
Jade

 2017/4/12 10:12Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1262
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: sister Jade

You wrote "My own belief is that the most important thing of all is to keep our eyes fixed on Jesus and abide in Him. I also believe that even if the doctrines we have acquired are wrong, the Holy Spirit is able to produce the right life in us if we are led by Him. "

Amen to that dear sister!

Blessings to you:)


_________________
Fletcher

 2017/4/12 10:26Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 657
Australia

 Re:


Thank you, brother Fletcher.


_________________
Jade

 2017/4/12 10:31Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy