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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Distractions and Worship of Theology

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Joined: 2006/9/16
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 Re:

/Going back to the atonement you are not going to find it spelled out for you in the bible. The bible wasn't meant for that./

???


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David Winter

 2017/4/3 16:09Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Can Christ speak to you through His written word? If Christ Himself spoke to you about the meaning of His atonement coulkd you then go to Scripture and find the same words and meaning?



Christ will give wisdom to anyone who asks. In this wisdom (who is Christ) yes you can understand Christs parables, Pauls writings, Peters, etc. It is the Spirit who gives life the flesh profits nothing.

So to answer your question more directly, yes you would look in the Scriptures and see the Apostles and Christ talking about it and understand it. Isn't that how it was supposed to be? He who has ears to hear is an often repeated phrase by Christ for a reason. The Gospel is a mystery, it cannot be found in plain sight because it's substance is of spirit not letter and it cannot be put into it. Hence the reason Paul never did. Praise God that he has hid these things from the wise and has REVEALED them to little children. The Gospel, the teachings of Christ are spirit and they are true.


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Tyler

 2017/4/3 16:11Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
/Going back to the atonement you are not going to find it spelled out for you in the bible. The bible wasn't meant for that./

???



Please read my most current post I answer this. The things of God are not written plainly, they are hid. You won't find it spelled out because that's not how Christ does it, hence the parables. It is spiritual in nature, not physical like the letter of the law. To bring it back into that is to go backwards and to go back to bondage (See Galatians.)


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Tyler

 2017/4/3 16:14Profile
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 Re: Talking in circles bro

/yes you would look in the Scriptures and see the Apostles and Christ talking about it and understand it. Isn't that how it was supposed to be?/

But you just said you won't find the meaning of the atonement in the scriptures because the Bible wasn't meant for that.

Now you say if you ask or wisdom from Christ He will give it to you and reveal the meaning of the atonement in the scriptures so we can understand it.

The Bible is not just a physical letter either. It's the God breathed word of God and is therefore spiritual in nature - spirit and life.




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David Winter

 2017/4/3 16:27Profile









 Re: Sandra

...Since they believed in the priesthood of the Believer they believed the pastor should not be on an elevated platform as you described...

Sister, I believe Michael Sattler told his dear wife Marguerite that every man and every woman must become a priest. Our brother Michael meaning that every believer with access to the Bible can discern truth as taught by the spirit into their hearts.

Bro Blaine

 2017/4/3 16:34
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 Re:

Docs I did not contradict myself you are missing my meaning. Since you do not understand I would be contradicting myself to try to further explain it.


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Tyler

 2017/4/3 16:46Profile
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 Re:

You wrote,

/Going back to the atonement you are not going to find it spelled out for you in the bible. The bible wasn't meant for that./

I then asked,

/Can Christ speak to you through His written word? If Christ Himself spoke to you about the meaning of His atonement could you then go to Scripture and find the same words and meaning?/

To which you replied,

/Christ will give wisdom to anyone who asks. In this wisdom (who is Christ) yes you can understand Christs parables, Pauls writings, Peters, etc. It is the Spirit who gives life the flesh profits nothing.

So to answer your question more directly, yes you would look in the Scriptures and see the Apostles and Christ talking about it and understand it. Isn't that how it was supposed to be?/

If as you say the meaning of the atonement is not in the Bible and can't be found there then why would Christ give you wisdom so as to find the meaning in the scriptures? You have plain and simply contradicted yourself.

Now you say you didn't contradict yourself but if you try and explain it any further you will contradict yourself. I don't really know what is going on here but God bless you and thanks for the conversation.

Blessings to you.








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David Winter

 2017/4/3 17:28Profile









 Re: His Were the Apostles Trained?

Acts 4:13

Now, as they observe the confidence of Peter and John and understood they were uneducated and untrained men, they were amazed and began to recognize them as having been with Jesus.

Peter and John were not seminary graduates. In other words, they could not say as Paul that they had studied at the feet of a leading rabbinical scholar of their day.  Though Peter and John did not command academic credentials. The Jewish theologians recognized that they had been with Jesus.

One must wonder what type of theological training did they receive walking with the Son of God? It was not an academic classroom training where the apostles were taught how to exegete scriptures.  But the apostles walked with Jesus in a practical "how to". That is how to become fisgers of men.  In other words, the apostles walked with Jesus in relationship. Seeing Him minister to people.  And His ministry being done in love.  The apostles through the power of the Spirit learned to do as Jesus did.

The same men who walked with Jesus and did ministry as He did. The same man have left us with some of the most profound truths about Jesus.  These truths are contained and what we call the New Testament.  These spiritual truths were not learned in an academic classroom. They were learned thriugh a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ by His Holy Spirit.

Peter, John, and the other apostles also moved in Holy Ghost power.  Indeed, by todays standards. They were untrained theologians. But upon the rock of Christ, they became the foundation of what we call the New Testament church.

Today, we have a radical departure in how evangelical pastors are trained.  It is called a seminary model. The model is based upon the Jewish model of Jesus day. In the days of Jesus, if anyone wanted to be a teacher of the Torah. They had to be trained in the temple model. Thus, an Torah student would sit at the feet of a leading Jewish scholar to learn the Torah.

Today, if someone feels a call to the pastorate.  They will find a leading evangelical seminary and sit at the feet of theologians.  Is this what God ever intended for his New Testament church?

in restricted nations, where persecution make a western theological education, all but impossible. Those who pastor are are often called by the Holy Spirit. to shepherd small congregations.  These pastors are often blessed if they have a portion, if not the whole New Testament. Often the training they receive is what they glean from the Holy Spirit in the reading His word. And the sppkication of that word in the fires of persecution.  If these pastors are blessed, they may try to go to a short discipling conference of a few days. But then must return to shepherd, their congregation in the shadow of the cross.  I might add these pastors with little or no theological education do move in. Holy Ghost power. Often the miracles we hear about come from the persecuted church.  Somehow these pastors never got the memo that God stopped working in signs and wonders after the first century.

These brothers do not have time to engage in theological discussions. As often, they are living out a theology of persecution and martyrdom in doing ministry for Jesus.

Again there is a radical departure. from how the early apostles were trained. And how leaders of churches are trained in the west today.

One wonders?  Yes, we are blessed with a whole canon of scripture. Yes, we have various commentaries and systematic theologies. But, I ask, where is the power of the Holy Spirit that Peter and John had?

Simply my thoughts.

Bro Blaine

 2017/4/3 18:05
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Joined: 2006/9/16
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 Re:

You can also become prideful about not being one of what you consider the prideful educated seminary types.


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David Winter

 2017/4/3 18:20Profile
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 Re: assumptions





The epitamy of pride wreaks in many posts in this thread. The indictment being made is that the men in the list in one of my previous posts, didn't walk with Jesus, were not in touch with the spirit, were merely studious men, who missed Jesus Himself. Unlike ya'll, who are claiming to have ascended to that enlightened understanding of the mysteries hidden in the Word.

None of the men listed, nor myself, consider the faith to be an exercise in academics. Jesus Himself is our passion, and the One Whom we worship. He Alone is Life!

Do not speak against one another, brothers. The one speaking against his brother or judging his brother speaks against the Law and judges the Law. But if you judge the Law, you are not a doer of the Law, but a judge. There is one Lawgiver and Judge, the One being able to save and to destroy. But who are you judging another? James 4:11,12

 2017/4/3 18:59Profile





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