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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Sabbath or First Day? (And other Jewish Roots issues)

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ReceivedText
Member



Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Re: Six Days of Work

crsschk,

Quote:
Lahry, what about?:

Exo 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.



This is well put. Point taken. Great work here.

It is always amazing when the simplicity of the word is interjected into the discussion.

RT

 2005/6/15 4:51Profile
ReceivedText
Member



Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Hi RT,

When it comes to guarding ourselves against what certain of the Messianics are doing it would probably serve the people more to first expose the Pagan origins of many of the days that we observe. The Messianics are usually reacting against the removal of feast days from expression of faith and the insertion of other days that were originally hellenistic reactions to hatred of the Jews. Pull out Pentecost and insert Easter? I can sympathize with you in your concern- but we have been toting this other leaven around for centuries. The one is a reaction against the other.



I totally and completely agree with you. New Covenanters must AT LEAST acknowledge the mote in their own eye to be effective in their assertion of clear NT truth.

It is indisputable fact that Christmas and Easter are both saturated with pagan origins. Even the days on which they are celebrated. We celebrate the Advent of Christ as an alternative holiday during the feast of tabernacles (the real time of Christ's birth). We also calculate resurrection day from Passover.

Well put. Point taken.

RT

 2005/6/15 4:57Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
We celebrate the Advent of Christ as an alternative holiday during the feast of tabernacles (the real time of Christ's birth).


I hear this comment from time to time. Can it be documented?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/6/15 7:02Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: 6 or 28 out of 30...

Since the waders are still on...

Quote:
Exo 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.



For want of finishing a thought. The question brought back up in response to Lahry was only in the form of a question, that was the part left unfinished and briefly to bring it up again; Not every question is a buttress or a seeming 'dig', think it can get misconstrued in many a conversation throughout here in this setting nor is that an assumption of what is happening right now. Just that often questions are questions, that's all...

But to interject some real life here to the issue. My heading is what is happening in fact. Best I can tell it is but a 'season'. Coming off the heels of being self employed and the whole unconventional nature of that...It can leave one without [i]any[/i] work whatsoever, other times backed up to the gills. With all the transition into a "regular" job, much was 'leftover' that had to be filled on weekends, both days. Is it a stretch to be rescuing a flock of sheep on consecutive Sundays and Saturdays? Recalling;

Mat 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

Not to mention prior to that...

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

[i]AM[/i] asking questions here, not looking for justification. [i]Believe[/i] me, circumstances find me in this not out of want but of necessity, it is [i]exhausting[/i]. It would be an even larger stretch to think that the effort is anything other but to keep the head above the water line. The hole is so deep that a similarity to Mat 18:25 and following practically an equivalent. To labor after filthy lucre that is only fuel for fire would be absurd, trying to 'stay out of the jail' of debt that came from various providences, part in poor business understanding the rest....I digress. It just IS. But this carrying around of baggage has taken an incredible toll and until it can be said "owe no man nothing", there will be no rest... Well, not entirely, a day here and there but for all that the question STILL remains. Am I in 'violation'? I haven't reasoned this all out to just go happily along, nor am I feeling particularly convicted, again, besides the point. What sayeth the scriptures? More importantly, what do they [i]mean[/i] in this day, in this type of situation? Much to be considered in the scriptures above as well as:

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Does this apply or is it talking of something along whole other lines? Have an inkling but still...others thoughts?

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Similar lines, which 'sabbath days'?

Luk 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?

Could fill this with scripture upon scripture. All the trouble Jesus got into or better said, was accused of because of His 'working' on the sabbath...

In so much of what we find in the the new covenant, that of the fuller obligation, from the heart opposed to ritual and works and keeping of laws, not disregard, not compromise... Likened to the thread elsewhere on lying is there something more permeating and penetrating that allows for 'exceptions' without making that a sloppy grace, or an "Ah Ha! You are skirting the issues!"?

Would it be mere rationale that everyday is a sabbath day? Every morning, every moment that can be snatched away from the cruel machinery of ths mad world and it's constant tail chasing, caught up in it's wake, to just to escape to God for a moment and grieve and gasp for Gods Presence, praying without ceasing...Perhaps this all waxing eloquent. A whole load of questions, not out of justification nor disturbance of spirit, never comfortable in this skin to begin with but also painfully aware of the blind side, always want to be able to [i]hear[/i], not merely listen.

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/6/15 10:08Profile









 Re:

One of the most useful things and elder ever said to me when I was trying to juggle responsibilities was, the solution 'had to be practical'. I would add, [i]practicable[/i]. This may not be the answer to your question, though, but here is what comes to me.

Quote:
What sayeth the scriptures? More importantly, what do they mean in this day, in this type of situation? Much to be considered in the scriptures above as well as...



Deuteronomy 23
24 When thou comest into thy neighbour's vineyard, then thou mayest eat grapes thy fill at thine own pleasure; but thou shalt not put [any] in thy vessel.

25 When thou comest into the standing corn of thy neighbour, then thou mayest pluck the ears with thine hand; but thou shalt not move a sickle unto thy neighbour's standing corn.

Mark 2
24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
25 And he said unto them, [This is the Lord beng [i]forward-looking[/i]]
'Have ye never read what David did, [b]when he had need[/b], and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?
26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?'

John 6
Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Hebrews 4
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things [are] naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of [b]need[/b].


How much more, through the Spirit, does He plan to meet [i]all[/i] your need?


Going back to personal experience 'in this type of situation' the most help came from calling on the Lord - finding His refreshing 'sweeping all the regions deep within' - sleeping when required, regardless of time of day or night, and learning to live from hand to mouth.

It is probably [i]more[/i] important in this sort of situation to [i]plan[/i] time [i]for yourself[/i] ironically, than to continue feeling you have to fit life round what you are doing and being for the Lord. You are in Him already. Your life is 'hid with Christ in God'.

While you may feel that outer things are out of control, this is a trick of the mind. Actually, they have never been so much in God's control as they are now. It's all a matter of perception, or, of perceptual disorientation... True perspective is given by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


I have tasted these things in the Lord, and it seems there is no escape from extremity if they are to be found. That is [i]where[/i] they are found.

When I was a child I had the mysterious privilege of worshipping in a church where Horatius Bonar preached for many years. At communion, we 'traditionally' sang a verse

O Christ, He is the fountain, the deep, sweet well of love!
The streams of earth I’ve tasted more deep I’ll drink above:
There to an ocean fullness His mercy doth expand,
And glory, glory dwelleth in Immanuel’s land.

[url=http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/s/a/sandtime.htm]http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/s/a/sandtime.htm[/url] because the author had been in his congregation.

Actually, it had been standing room only and we were not allowed to use all the galleries because they had been weakened by the crowds. He perhaps, knew something we can only guess at, when he wrote this:

I heard the voice of Jesus say, “Come unto Me and rest;
Lay down, thou weary one, lay down Thy head upon My breast.”
I came to Jesus as I was, weary and worn and sad;
I found in Him a resting place, and He has made me glad.

I heard the voice of Jesus say, “Behold, I freely give
The living water; thirsty one, stoop down, and drink, and live.”
I came to Jesus, and I drank of that life giving stream;
My thirst was quenched, my soul revived, and now I live in Him.

I heard the voice of Jesus say, “I am this dark world’s Light;
Look unto Me, thy morn shall rise, and all thy day be bright.”
I looked to Jesus, and I found in Him my Star, my Sun;
And in that light of life I’ll walk, till traveling days are done.

[url=http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/i/h/iheardtv.htm]http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/i/h/iheardtv.htm[/url]

 2005/6/15 13:20





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