| Early Church on Israel|
Dialogue Of Justin Philosopher And Martyr With Trypho by Justin Martyr
Chapter CXXIII.--Ridiculous interpretations of the Jews. Christians are the true Israel.
|As, therefore, all these latter prophecies refer to Christ and the nations, you should believe that the former refer to Him and them in like manner. For the proselytes have no need of a covenant, if, since there is one and the same law imposed on all that are circumcised, the Scripture speaks about them thus: And the stranger shall also be joined with them, and shall be joined to the house of Jacob;' and because the proselyte, who is circumcised that he may have access to the people, becomes like one of themselves, while we who have been deemed worthy to be called a people are yet Gentiles, because we have not been circumcised. Besides, it is ridiculous for you to imagine that the eyes of the proselytes are to be opened while your own are not, and that you be understood as blind and deaf while they are enlightened. And it will be still more ridiculous for you, if you say that the law has been given to the nations, but you have not known it. For you would have stood in awe of God's wrath, and would not have been lawless, wandering sons; being much afraid of hearing God always say, Children in whom is no faith. And who are blind, but my servants? and deaf, but they that rule over them? And the servants of God have been made blind. You see often, but have not observed; your ears have been opened, and you have not heard.' Is God's commendation of you honourable? and is God's testimony seemly for His servants? You are not ashamed though you often hear these words. You do not tremble at God's threats, for you are a people foolish and hard-hearted. Therefore, behold, I will proceed to remove this people,' saith the Lord; and I will remove them, and destroy the wisdom of the wise, and hide the understanding of the prudent.' Deservedly too: for you are neither wise nor prudent, but crafty and unscrupulous; wise only to do evil, but utterly incompetent to know the hidden counsel of God, or the faithful covenant of the Lord, or to find out the everlasting paths. Therefore, saith the Lord, I will raise up to Israel and to Judah the seed of men and the seed of beasts.' And by Isaiah He speaks thus concerning another Israel: In that day shall there be a third Israel among the Assyrians and the Egyptians, blessed in the land which the Lord of Sabaoth hath blessed, saying, blessed shall my people in Egypt and in Assyria be, and Israel mine inheritance.' Since then God blesses this people, and calls them Israel, and declares them to be His inheritance, how is it that you repent not of the deception you practise on yourselves, as if you alone were the Israel, and of execrating the people whom God has blessed? For when He speaks to Jerusalem and its environs, He thus added: And I will beget men upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall inherit you, and you shall be a possession for them; and you shall be no longer bereaved of them.' |
| 2017/3/15 10:45||Profile|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
| Re: Early Church on Israel|
We have to understand the context of such writings, the jewish people were very hostile against christians as jesus death was looked as a rejection of their messiah and being fresh in their minds this was highly offensive.
It is no wonder there were tensions and extreme positions on both sides at times.
SI Moderator - Greg
| 2017/3/15 11:05||Profile|
| Re: Chapter XIII.--Christians, and not Jews, the heirs of the covenant. |
The Epistle Of Barnabas :
Chapter XIII.--Christians, and not Jews, the heirs of the covenant.
But let us see if this people is the heir, or the former, and if the covenant belongs to us or to them. Hear ye now what the Scripture saith concerning the people. Isaac prayed for Rebecca his wife, because she was barren; and she conceived. Furthermore also, Rebecca went forth to inquire of the Lord; and the Lord said to her, |Two nations are in thy womb, and two peoples in thy belly; and the one people shall surpass the other, and the elder shall serve the younger.| You ought to understand who was Isaac, who Rebecca, and concerning what persons He declared that this people should be greater than that. And in another prophecy Jacob speaks more clearly to his son Joseph, saying, |Behold, the Lord hath not deprived me of thy presence; bring thy sons to me, that I may bless them.| And he brought Manasseh and Ephraim, desiring that Manasseh should be blessed, because he was the elder. With this view Joseph led him to the right hand of his father Jacob. But Jacob saw in spirit the type of the people to arise afterwards. And what says [the Scripture]? And Jacob changed the direction of his hands, and laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, the second and younger, and blessed him. And Joseph said to Jacob, |Transfer thy right hand to the head of Manasseh, for he is my first-born son.| And Jacob said, |I know it, my son, I know it; but the elder shall serve the younger: yet he also shall be blessed.| Ye see on whom he laid [his hands], that this people should be first, and heir of the covenant. If then, still further, the same thing was intimated through Abraham, we reach the perfection of our knowledge. What, then, says He to Abraham? |Because thou hast believed, it is imputed to thee for righteousness: behold, I have made thee the father of those nations who believe in the Lord while in [a state of] uncircumcision.
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| Re: The New Testament on Israel|
If I use the word America in describing this country I am not describing just a speacial class of people within the greater Amercia. I am describing the totality of the people in America. Likewise, when the New Testament uses the word Israel it is not just decribing a special class of people within Israel. It is not describing just the believing within Israel. The New Testament in its use of the word Isarel uses the term Israel to at times describe the believing in Israel and at times is used to describe the unbelieving in Israel. So "Israel" as used in the New Testament is used to describe the believing and the unbelieving. Contrary to opinions such as first propogated by Justin Martyr and Origen, the NEW TESTAMENT NEVER USES THE WORD ISRAEL TO DESCRIBE THE BELIEVING CHURCH ONLY. Just as when we use the word America we are referring to the country as a whole, the believing and the unbelieving.
WHO IS ISRAEL?
Almost limitless misunderstanding, ignorance and distortion have pervaded the church for many centuries concerning the identity of Israel. This seems extraordinary because the statements of the Bible regarding Israel are so clear. Nevertheless, the minds of multitudes of Christians seem to be clouded in regard to the application of the name Israel.
The origin of the confusion regarding Israel may be traced back to the early church fathers, who developed a doctrine that the church had replaced Israel in the purposes of God and was to be known as the “new Israel.” This kind of teaching was promulgated by about 150 A.D. By Justin Martyr and was later adopted and amplified by such celebrated figures as Irenaeus, Origen and Augustine. More and more, the Old Testament was interpreted in an “allegorical” way, which no longer did justice to the plain meaning of many texts.
Significantly, at about the same period the doctrine of the church as a whole was becoming progressively corrupted from the purity and simplicity of the apostolic revelation contained in the New Testament. The eventuall outcome of this process was the church of the Dark Ages, which was, for the most part, spiritually, morally and doctrinally corrupt
From about 400 A.D., Israel has regularly been used by Bible teachers, comentators and even translators as a synonym for the church. For example, a certain edition of the King James Version has the following headings at the top of the pages in latter chapters of Isaiah:
Chapter 43 opens with the words, “But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not....” But the heading at the top of the page reads, “God comforteth the church with His promises” (italics added ).
Again, chapter 44 of Isaiah opens with the words, “Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen....” But the heading at the top of the page reads, “The church comforted” (italics added).
Headings such as these, inserted in the text, produces an effect that is subliminal – that is, below the threshold of conscious awareness. Nevertheless, their cumulative impact over the centuries is beyond our power to calculate. Many generations of Christians have unconsciously assumed that the headings are part of the original text. But they are not! Supplied by editors many centuries later, they misrepresent what Isaiah is actually saying, applying to the church words that are specifically addressed by name to Israel.
Essential truth is usually simple. And the truth is, Israel is Israel, and the church is the church.
To recover the truth about the identity of Israel it is necessary to go back to the actual text of the New Testament and see how the apostles used the term Israel. This is the only legitimate basis for a scripturally accurate use of this term. Ever since the canon of Scripture was closed, no subsequent writer or preacher has been authorized to change the usuage established by the apostolic writers of the New Testament. Any writer or preacher who introduces a different application of the term Israel foreits the right to claim scriptural authority for what he or she has to say about Israel.
There are seventy-seven instances in the New Testament (NASB) where the word Israel or Israelite occur. After examining them all, one can rightfully conclude that the apostles NEVER USED THE WORD ISRAEL TO DESCRIBE THE CHURCH. (Emphasis mine)
Nor does the phrase the new Israel occur anywhere in the New Testament. Preachers and teachers who use that phrase should take care to define their use of it. They should also state it is not found in the Bible. 
("The Destiny of Israel and the Church: Destinies Once Again Beginning to Converge" – Derek Prince – 1992, 2007. Derek Prince Ministries, P.O. Box 19501, Charlotte, NC, USA. 13-15, Chapter 1 – “The Destiny of Israel And The Church”)
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| Re: A third Israel???|
/And by Isaiah He speaks thus concerning another Israel: In that day shall there be a third Israel among the Assyrians and the Egyptians, blessed in the land which the Lord of Sabaoth hath blessed, saying, blessed shall my people in Egypt and in Assyria be, and Israel mine inheritance.' Since then God blesses this people, and calls them Israel, and declares them to be His inheritance, how is it that you repent not of the deception you practise on yourselves, as if you alone were the Israel, and of execrating the people whom God has blessed?/
23 In that day there shall be a highway from Egypt to Assyra, and the Assyrians will come into Egypt and the Egyptians into Assyria, and the Egyptians will serve with the Assyrians
24 In that day Isarel will be one of three with Egypt and Assyria - a blessing in the midst of the land, whom the Lord of hosts shall bless, saying, "Blessed is Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance. (NKJV)
23 In that day there shall be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian will come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria; and the Egyptians will worship [the Lord] with the Assyrians.
24 In that day Israel shall be the third, with Egypt and with Assyria [ in a Messianic league], a blessing in the midst of the earth (AMP Bible)
Justin Martyr misinterpreted these verses from Isaiah 19:23-24 and used them to propogate, based on his early replacement theology, that the belieivng church was now Israel. It was a Gentile innovation to the Scriptures to justify the belief that believing Gentiles were now Israel. This verses in Isaiah sp0eak rather of the days - "in that day" - when Christ has returned and a Messianic league of belief will be formed beteween Egypt, Syria and Israel that willl bless the whole earth. Since such a day has never been seen before now it would seem safe to believe the Bible speaks of a yet future event. Justin Martyr succumbed to what Paul warned about - "do not boast against the branches but rather fear" (Romans 11:18-19)
"how is it that you repent not of the deception you practise on yourselves, as if you alone were the Israel, and of execrating the people whom God has blessed?" (Justin Martyr)
Maybe because Jewish unbelief does not relegate the name Israel to another people.
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| Re: |
RE : /// Justin Martyr misinterpreted these verses from Isaiah 19:23-24 and used them to propogate, based on his early replacement theology, that the belieivng church was now Israel. It was a Gentile innovation to the Scriptures to justify the belief that believing Gentiles were now Israel.///
The Epistle of Barnabas [a.d.100.] : "The writer of this Epistle is supposed to have been an Alexandrian Jew of the times of Trajan and Hadrian.... :
| 2017/3/15 19:46||Profile|
| Treasure trove of Writtings here|
there is a site on the web that offers free downloads in PDF format so everyone can read these books off line. Brother Greg gave me the go ahead to post the link so to all ...enjoy:)
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| Re: Deleted|
Out of courtesy to proudpapa. No problem.
| 2017/3/16 11:53||Profile|
| An Answer To The Jews by Tertullian |
An Answer To The Jews by Tertullian
Chapter I.--Occasion of Writing. Relative Position of Jews and Gentiles Illustrated.
It happened very recently a dispute was held between a Christian and a Jewish proselyte. Alternately with contentious cable they each spun out the day until evening. By the opposing din, moreover, of some partisans of the individuals, truth began to be overcast by a sort of cloud. It was therefore our pleasure that that which, owing to the confused noise of disputation, could be less fully elucidated point by point, should be more carefully looked into, and that the pen should determine, for reading purposes, the questions handled.
For the occasion, indeed, of claiming Divine grace even for the Gentiles derived a pre-eminent fitness from this fact, that the man who set up to vindicate God's Law as his own was of the Gentiles, and not a Jew |of the stock of the Israelites.| For this fact -- that Gentiles are admissible to God's Law -- is enough to prevent Israel from priding himself on the notion that |the Gentiles are accounted as a little drop of a bucket,| or else as |dust out of a threshing-floor:| although we have God Himself as an adequate engager and faithful promiser, in that He promised to Abraham that |in his seed should be blest all nations of the earth;| and that out of the womb of Rebecca |two peoples and two nations were about to proceed,| -- of course those of the Jews, that is, of Israel; and of the Gentiles, that is ours. Each, then, was called a people and a nation; lest, from the nuncupative appellation, any should dare to claim for himself the privilege of grace. For God ordained |two peoples and two nations| as about to proceed out of the womb of one woman: nor did grace make distinction in the nuncupative appellation, but in the order of birth; to the effect that, which ever was to be prior in proceeding from the womb, should be subjected to |the less,| that is, the posterior. For thus unto Rebecca did God speak: |Two nations are in thy womb, and two peoples shall be divided from thy bowels; and people shall overcome people, and the greater shall serve the less.| Accordingly, since the people or nation of the Jews is anterior in time, and |greater| through the grace of primary favour in the Law, whereas ours is understood to be |less| in the age of times, as having in the last era of the world attained the knowledge of divine mercy: beyond doubt, through the edict of the divine utterance, the prior and |greater| people -- that is, the Jewish -- must necessarily serve the |less;| and the |less| people -- that is, the Christian -- overcome the |greater.| For, withal, according to the memorial records of the divine Scriptures, the people of the Jews -- that is, the more ancient -- quite forsook God, and did degrading service to idols, and, abandoning the Divinity, was surrendered to images; while |the people| said to Aaron, |Make us gods to go before us.| And when the gold out of the necklaces of the women and the rings of the men had been wholly smelted by fire, and there had come forth a calf-like head, to this figment Israel with one consent (abandoning God) gave honour, saying, |These are the gods who brought us from the land of Egypt.| For thus, in the later times in which kings were governing them, did they again, in conjunction with Jeroboam, worship golden kine, and groves, and enslave themselves to Baal. Whence is proved that they have ever been depicted, out of the volume of the divine Scriptures, as guilty of the crime of idolatry; whereas our |less| -- that is, posterior -- people, quitting the idols which formerly it used slavishly to serve, has been converted to the same God from whom Israel, as we have above related, had departed. For thus has the |less| -- that is, posterior -- people overcome the |greater people,| while it attains the grace of divine favour, from which Israel has been divorced
| 2017/3/16 20:08||Profile|
| Re: Bottom line purpose and application|
So proudpapa you have presented a section by Justin Martyr, Barnabas and Tertullian. If I can ask, and you are under no obligation to answer just because I asked, what was your purpose in doing so? In other words, what point or points is it you were trying to make?. If you could perhaps make your point in three or four sentences, what would they be?
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