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 Re: Revelation 10:6-11 NASB

___Why he allowed it, I have no idea. Suffering? is this a dry run of what is to come?)___

My sister why God allowed you to get the wrong seed I do not know. But perhaps to bring you into a deeper faith walk with Him. To train you to trust Him even more deeply in what may surely befall us in the days ahead.

Just earlier this morning I recieved a call from my staffing agency that said an event I was looking forward to working this coming Friday had been cancelled. There are 3 of us in my house living off my fixed income. So I was looking forward to the extra money I would recieve from working this assignment. After receiving the news of the cancellation. I just basically trusted that God had something else in mind. So I trusted God believing that all things would work together for good. Sure enough when I checked our account. There was a 200 dollar credit to pay the electric bill. So my sister God does take care of His children.

Sandra I will certainly be keeping you in my prayers. That our gracious God wil certainly provide for your needs.

My sister always appreciate your posts.

Bro Blaine

 2017/5/17 12:26
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7476
Mississippi

 Re:

Thank-you, Blaine, for your encouraging words.

We have been encouraged to involve an attorney in this matter but we do not feel comfortable with that. If we do and they would not be forthcoming, we would be forced to sue and you know what Jesus said about that - and this did not take God by surprise, either. Still, it is challenging to the limit and do wonder what God is leading us to do. We are not panicking, but do have a lot of questions.

God bless.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/5/18 15:18Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7476
Mississippi

  Revelation 11

Revelation 11

1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.

2 “Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.

3 “And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.

5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way.

6 These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.

7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

9 Those from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their dead bodies for three and a half days, and will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb.

10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

11 But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them.

12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” Then they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them.

13 And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.


I find this chapter fascinating. You have these two witnesses preaching - who were functioning before the throne as the olive trees and lamp stands before their appearance on earth. They preach for 3 1/2 years, spit out fire from their mouths, killing people; imposing drought; turning water into blood and every kind of plague they pleased! Wow! Think about that! Dunno of any modern day preacher that would even want to do that (although I suspect Paul Washer might if he could, dunno) - they are too kind and merciful!

Then the beast is released from the abyss and kills them! A body thinks that fellows with this much power could not be killed but they were. Apparently, people were so glad to see them dead they prohibited the bodies from being buried; evoked celebrations by sending gifts to each other. Then...then on the third day they resurrected! Yes! And scared the whooies out of people!

A voice from heaven calls out to them to come on up and they did - people saw it which was followed by an earthquake, killing 7000 people. And it says "the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven." So far in this narrative we do not read of this response to any kind of judgment, calamity imposed upon the people. Makes one wonder why the difference? I do not know and barely can even speculate. However, as I meditate on this prophecy I am filled with awe....I love to visualize the shock and amazement when they see these dead men resurrect and rise to heaven. Kind of amuses me. God demonstrated in a powerful way that he is bigger then their rebellion and their god. YES!

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/5/18 15:42Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7476
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 Re: Revelation 11

Rabbit trail....

In the woe mentioned in 11:6 - the drought imposed by these prophets, I am also aware that God had promised the Israelites in the OT that if they obeyed him, there would be rain but if not, drought would follow.

Today, Israel is considered a desert country. Visitors there tell me the only green in the countryside is thus because of irrigation. When Joshua led the people in to Canaan it was described as a land flowing with milk and honey; there are other reports of crops being grown in the countryside during the time of the OT.

I do not know how long Israel was considered a desert country. If it has been thus for hundreds of years what impact would lack of rain have on Israel if it already is in drought? Or, maybe I am muddying the waters..?

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/5/18 15:51Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7476
Mississippi

 Revelation 11:15-19 NASB

Revelation 11:15-19 NASB

5 Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”

16 And the twenty-four elders, who sit on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God,

17 saying,“We give You thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who are and who were, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign.

18 “And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

19 And the temple of God which is in heaven was opened; and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple, and there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder and an earthquake and a great hailstorm.

It appears to me in this portion we see the end close, coming to a climax (verse 18). Today I want to focus on the Temple.

The role of the Temple as recorded here has always stumped me. It makes no sense to me. I understand the purpose of the tabernacle and the temple as recorded in the OT; the offerings and sacrifices. I also understand the purpose was to remind people of their sin and the suffering it inflicted onto other creatures and themselves. I get that. I also know these sacrifices point to Jesus and his role in redemption. I understand that. But was it not fulfilled in Jesus life - his death and resurrection? These things were all symbolic - the tabernacle/temple sacrifices - of the real thing, or maybe they had practical value but we are not aware of it?

In the NT we are given symbols that need to be observed, obeyed. They have no practical value, none that I am aware of or maybe they do but we are ignorant of it? . For example, the communion cup: we take so little of the juice it has little nutritional value. But we do it anyways because Jesus said to do it.

Symbols point to a deeper reality but do we always understand it? No. Do we not observe it because of our lack of understanding? Some do and others do it anyways.

In any case, the role of this temple in heaven escapes my understanding other then that it is there. In verse one it appears as though it is in Jerusalem but in verse 19 it is in heaven. Makes no sense to me. Mystery to me. But it will not deter me from my pursuit of the study of Revelation, or the rest of the scripture for that matter. Sometimes there are things that do not make sense, are mysterious but we believe, do and obey and what makes no sense now will eventually. So it is with my understanding of this temple.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/5/19 11:36Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7476
Mississippi

 Revelation 12:1-6 NASB

Revelation 12:1-6 NASB

1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;

2 and she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.

3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.

4 And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.

5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.

6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

The scene changes. Now the text uses terms like "sign", "wonder" to describe an event that John saw. As I understand this signs are terms used allegorically to describe a real event. In this scripture we see a woman,stars, sun, dragon, wilderness, God.

Many scholars have written a lot to inform the reader what these symbols are representative of but today I want to make this more personal. There is a powerful lesson here for us today where we live and function and as we deal with satan.

A woman, about to give birth is very vulnerable to whatever is out there. She is totally focused on giving birth and absolutely nothing else. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Period. Birthing is painful and she is pushing, working to deliver this child her body is working to expel. A woman birthing a child needs help. Females have been caught in situations where they were alone and had to fend for themselves, but this is not the norm, assistance is helpful and deeply appreciated.

Ok, here you have a woman giving birth and there looms nearby a dragon who eagerly awaits this birth so he can eat this baby! Lord, have mercy! What kind of kindness is this???!! And the dragon is fearsome, indeed: he has seven heads, ten horns, his tail if humongous - strong enough to sweep away a third of the stars and throwing them onto the earth! Fearsome, extremely so. Imagine it if you can, being this woman giving birth with a fearsome creature like this watching her very closely. Yikes!

But the text says the child was caught up to heaven and then the woman fled to a place in the wilderness that was prepared for her by God. Ah....how sweet of God!And there God nourished her.

I see in this allegory the Believer, the child of God who is confronted by the dragon, satan. He is every bit as fearful as the one described here although we cannot see him we know he is fearsome, indeed - just look around and you can see the evidence of it.

The Believer is very vulnerable, like the woman giving birth. After giving birth she fled. She made the decision to run and she outran the dragon - amazing.

We encounter the devil all the time. When these encounters get severe, threatening our well-being we must make the first effort - decision, to run and God will give one the strength to run to a place of security in Him, one that He has prepared for his children. There is safety and security. However, as we read further in this chapter, we learn the dragon still pursued the woman and so it is with life, walking with God, the devil keeps pursuing us until the end - and there will come an end, Praise the LORD!

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/5/23 11:12Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7476
Mississippi

 Revelation 12:7-17 NASB

Revelation 12:7-17 NASB

7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,

8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.

11 “And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.

12 “For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.”

13 And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child.

14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

15 And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood.

16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth.

17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.


Today I want to focus on this dragon, satan. To identify the woman and when all these events occurred as shared in this passage requires more then I care to get into here, but would love to see someone else start a thread dealing with this question.

As I look at this dragon, who he is, his methods I am well aware of the danger one can get into when focusing too much on satan. A Mennonite evangelist, Lavern Swartz said many years ago he refuses to preach a sermon anymore about the devil because of the spiritual repercussions of doing so. We don't ignore his reality, but we can become too fascinated with him. How to become aware of his modus operanti and still stay focused on the LORD Jesus becomes challenging.

Notice a few things about this dragon:
1. He lived in heaven at one time.
2. Made war with Michael and his angels.
3. Michael and his angels defeated the dragon
4. The dragon was ousted from heaven.
5. The dragon and his angels were thrown onto the earth.
6. This dragon is identified as satan.
7. Satan is a deceiver.
8. He is an accuser - accuses people before God day and night.
9. He persecutes any who cooperates with God in His
scheme for life.
10. He persecutes any who keep the commandments of God
and hold to the testimony of Jesus Christ.
11. He uses nature to persecute the Believer.

Satan is a dreadful foe. He has forces at his disposal to enhance his chances of winning. With all these forces arrayed against a person, how can one ever hope to win?

I find verse 10 interesting. It says that because the devil is thrown down salvation has come: "“Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come."

The key to spiritual survival, overcoming is to know your weapons and they are close by:
1. Because of the blood of the Lamb
2. Because of the word of their testimony
3. They did not love their life even when faced with death.

These are our weapons. One does not have to run hither and yon or pay money for them: it requires a simple surrender to the LORDship of Jesus Christ who will give us the weapons to successfully fight this dragon. This includes a good understanding of the Blood of Jesus Christ in the role of redemption. One can never minimize its importance. When this reality becomes a part of who we are death will lose its sting because we know the LORD Jesus awaits us on the other side.

It is imperative we are well suited up to fight this battle because of the forces the dragon will utilize in his final push to overcome the LAMB. There is no room or time to get lax, we must always be on guard.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/5/24 11:32Profile
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Posts: 5503
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 Re: Revelation 12:7-17 NASB

One thing we know for sure is that the "casting down" occurred after the crucifixion because the blood of the lamb is what overcame him. I relate this to what Jesus said (prophetically) that he saw satan fall like lightning.

In my view this is the only passage that lends any support to the idea that satan is a fallen angel and it is not even certain that these verses say that.


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Todd

 2017/5/24 15:45Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7476
Mississippi

 Re:

Todd, I notice this, too, how the weapons of defense were contingent upon the shed blood of Jesus.

In Isaiah 14 were read how "the son of the morning" was "fallen from heaven". Scholars are divided on the identify of this being. In my understanding of prophecy it can have dual meanings and that is the way I would understand this.

Then you have in Job where satan appeared before God, conferred with Him about Job. It is apparent that satan did have personal access to God in the OT. When he was absolutely banished from the heaven, I am not sure. What do you think?

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/5/25 11:21Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7476
Mississippi

 Re: Revelation 12:7-17 NASB

Today I want to focus a bit more on the destructive nature of satan, the dragon.

Before his fall I had the impression he was a beautiful angel, a very intelligent one, leader of the music in heaven. He was one fine angel. But...and therein lies the problem, the 'but'.

Lucifer wanted to have the preeminence in heaven and therein lies the problem. Does it not always create a problem when people strife to have the preeminence in society, in the church, in families? Why not be content to be a servant? Actually, having a servant mindset will free you from a lot of responsibility as to the outcome of your obedience - the outcome rests upon the one in charge.

Ok, need to get back on topic.

Satan is so destructive; it is his nature: conflict is at the core of his modus operandi. Destroy what is beautiful, awesome. He will work to replace it but at the expense of destroying God's beauty, His will, silencing with violence those who dare to oppose.

The dragon is ugly, destructive...is it not kind of amazing how a creature so talented, so well thought of can fall so far, so low? Works this way with people, too, does it not? Unless we stay close to the LORD Jesus we can also fall far away from God and take on the nature of the dragon.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/5/25 11:34Profile





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