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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Good Friday, or Good Thursday?

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crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:Observations

Quote:
That's quite a stretch to try to link the changing of months by God to the changing of the Sabbath Day by religious zealots, don't you think?



Hi Lahry,

Yes certainly, it was just a musing out loud, a curiosity. Recall the reasoning behind the 'changing' of the Sabbath and certainly we have had some prior discussions on all this. It was just one of those 'Hmmm's...'. Think in part it was the bringing to remembrance of the "High Sabbaths" and much like the issue of tithing in our day, much is either negated or just not taken into consideration. But as far as making a distinct link in this regards, likely quite a reach indeed.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/6/13 10:18Profile
geddingsm
Member



Joined: 2003/11/3
Posts: 61
south carolina

 Re: three days in the tomb

According to William Lane Craig, PH.D,D.TH. author of at least 7 books on apologetics and creation says that, "Most scholars recognize that according to early Jewish time-reckoning, any part of a day counted as a full day. Jesus was in the tomb Friday afternoon, all day Saturday, and on Sunday morning-under the way the Jews conceptualized time back then, this would have counted as three days."

Sometimes we forget about times changing and customs being different.

In Him,
geddingsm


_________________
marvin geddings

 2005/6/13 11:28Profile









 Re: Dorcas and Crsschk

The big difference in my mind is that God changed the 7th month to the first. I cannot find anyone to give me any documentation where God ever told anyone to change His 7th day to the 1st day. That was man's doing as best I understand it. We need to remember that what seems good to man is not always obedience to God.

 2005/6/13 16:41









 Re:

Quote:

Lahry wrote:
Nobody knows what time Jesus arose from the dead. All we know is that when they went there, He was not there.
---------------------------
Stever's response:
I agree, we really are not certain of the exact time that Jesus resurrected from the dead. But, if He was crucified on Passover, the 14th of Abib, and rose from the dead on the first day of the week, it had to be sometime during the first day (Sunday). Since none of the women saw him in His new resurrected body at the sepulcher, he had to resurrect after 6:00 A.M to qualify to have arisen on Sunday, the first day of the week (Jewish days start the evening before- Sunday night started at 6:00 P.M. and the night time was broken up into nightime watches. The daytime started at 6:00 A.M., the first hour). That time had to be shortly after 6:00 A.M. because the women were there at sunrise, that very day and He was already gone. It had to be at least one minute into that day (Sunday) to qualify for any part of that day.(Part of the day, any part of that day qualified it for the full day because of the way that the Jews reckon time).

Luke 24:17
1.Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. 3And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. 4And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: 5And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? 6He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, 7Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the THIRD DAY RISE AGAIN.
-----

God bless,

Stever

 2005/6/13 18:04
ReceivedText
Member



Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Re: Wednesday?

Quote:
Here is E W Bullinger's explanation of the timings. in which he makes his case for Wednesday, Nisan 14th as the Day of the Crucifixion.



This is from philologos' link of Bullinger's explanation:

- "THE FIRST DAY OF THE FEAST" - "THE HIGH DAY" (Yom tov) - THE 15TH DAY OF NISAN.
(Our Wednesday sunset to Thursday sunset.)

- THE FIRST NIGHT AND FIRST DAY IN THE TOMB.
THE SECOND DAY OF THE FEAST - THE 16TH DAY OF NISAN.
(Our Thursday sunset to Friday sunset.)

- THE SECOND NIGHT AND SECOND DAY IN THE TOMB.
THE THIRD DAY OF THE FEAST - "THE (WEEKLY) SABBATH" - THE 17TH DAY OF NISAN.
(Our Friday susnset to Saturday sunset.)

- THE THIRD NIGHT AND THIRD DAY IN THE TOMB.
"THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK" - THE 18TH DAY OF NISAN.
(Our Saturday sunset: "the third day" of Matthew 16:21, etc.;
not the third day of the Feast.)

RT

 2005/6/13 19:27Profile









 Re:

What Bullinger is missing is an understanding of Leviticus 23:10-11 where it tells us that the Feast of Firstfruits follows the Sabbath, not the High Sabbath or Holy Convocation.


Leviticus 23:4-

14th day of the week was Passover ( Lev 23:5)

15th day was the first day of the week of the feast of unleavened bread- a High Sabbath, Holy Convocation day. (Lev 23:6-7)

16 Sabbath day (Saturday)

17 Feast of Firstfruits (Sunday) Lev 23: 10-11- telling us it OCCURS after the Sabbath, not the High Sabbath

18th

19th

20th

21st

22nd- The last day of the week of unleavened bread- A High Sabbath, Holy Convocation day.

The Jews also counted the days of the week different that we do. They started numbering the second day as one, instead of starting with the first day as we do today in America.. The Feast of the week of unleavened bread starts on Friday, the 15th and goes through the 22nd- really 8 days to us and 7 days to them. The first day is not counted.


Seven (7) Sabbaths after the Firstfruits (the Resurrection) are waved (the 17th), or 50 days later we have Pentecost (Lev 23:15-16) (7 Sabbaths would be 49 days plus an extra day= 50 days)---ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW THEY RECKONED TIME.


The Passover has to be on a Thursday, because the feast of Firstfruits is on a Sunday. Most people get confused because they don’t read Leviticus 23:11 clearly where it specifically states that Firstfruits follows the Sabath day, not the High Sabbath or Holy Convocation day.

God bless,

Stever
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Quote:

Received Text wrote:
Quote:
Here is E W Bullinger's explanation of the timings. in which he makes his case for Wednesday, Nisan 14th as the Day of the Crucifixion.



This is from philologos' link of Bullinger's explanation:

- "THE FIRST DAY OF THE FEAST" - "THE HIGH DAY" (Yom tov) - THE 15TH DAY OF NISAN.
(Our Wednesday sunset to Thursday sunset.)

- THE FIRST NIGHT AND FIRST DAY IN THE TOMB.
THE SECOND DAY OF THE FEAST - THE 16TH DAY OF NISAN.
(Our Thursday sunset to Friday sunset.)

- THE SECOND NIGHT AND SECOND DAY IN THE TOMB.
THE THIRD DAY OF THE FEAST - "THE (WEEKLY) SABBATH" - THE 17TH DAY OF NISAN.
(Our Friday susnset to Saturday sunset.)

- THE THIRD NIGHT AND THIRD DAY IN THE TOMB.
"THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK" - THE 18TH DAY OF NISAN.
(Our Saturday sunset: "the third day" of Matthew 16:21, etc.;
not the third day of the Feast.)

RT

 2005/6/13 20:37









 Re: Stever, how do you get.....

...that Jesus had to have risen after 6 AM when the "first day of the week starts Saturday at Sunset? Why could Jesus not have risen at 6:01 PM Saturday, or anytime between then and sunrise?

 2005/6/14 7:56
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
The big difference in my mind is that God changed the 7th month to the first. I cannot find anyone to give me any documentation where God ever told anyone to change His 7th day to the 1st day. That was man's doing as best I understand it. We need to remember that what seems good to man is not always obedience to God.


Hi Lahry dear friend.
Perhaps what I was musing was if this may have been somehow intertwined in [i]their[/i] reasoning, not as a justification. Besides, to be honest I don't recall any of this even unrelated to my mere comment, that of God changing the month. It just goes to prove how much can be missed in reading that never sinks in or goes past us. As far as the whole Sabbath day issue in regards to 'our' day in the Lord now, think it would fall on completely different lines, this would be the last thing I would bring into the mix. Sorry for the confusion.

Edit: P.S. see there is another thread that may well begin to explore this...Boy, the trouble I get myself in to :-P


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/6/14 9:58Profile









 Re:

quote]
Lahry wrote:
...that Jesus had to have risen after 6 AM when the "first day of the week starts Saturday at Sunset? Why could Jesus not have risen at 6:01 PM Saturday, or anytime between then and sunrise?



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Stever's response:

The evening and the morning were the first day (Genesis 1:5)--- the Jews reckoned time exactly like God reckoned time in Genesis, at the beginning. The evening (night) is always followed by the morning, and the morning is the entire day until 6:00 P.M. The evening time (night time) consists of watches, and the day time consists of hours- ie the first hour, etc.etc. etc. throughout the day. The daily sacrifices at the Temple always took place, every day of the week at the 3rd hour (9:00 A.M.- the same time that Christ was crucified) and at the 9th hour-at 3:00 P.M.(the same time that Christ gave up the Ghost).

Also, in answer to your question, for Christ to qualify for being in the belly of the earth for 3 nights and 3 days, he had to arise from the dead sometime during the first hour of the Firstfruits, Sunday, to make it into the 3rd "day".

Remember, any part of a day is considered to be the entire day to the Jew-the Jew 2,000 years ago, as well as today.
Hope this is clear.

God bless,

Stever

 2005/6/14 11:44









 Re:

This is an oblique comment about changing the day of worship to Sunday. (I note a Sabbath can be any day of the week.) Rather than it being a change from the 7th to the 1st, I have heard there is some significance in the number 8. Immediately, it brings to mind circumcision on the 8th day. Recall how the disciples did not believe the report of the women, that Jesus had risen from the dead and when He got to them, He chided them for? Their unbelief. The very thing of which circumcision of the heart is significant? - FAITH So, it may not just be whether Jesus had risen from the dead by a certain time, but something to do with their response to that truth.

 2005/6/14 15:21





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