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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : interpreting

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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Jake/bubbaguy
You ought to know by know that I would share very few opinions with your 'Armagedon Christians'. As Dorcas has said this has nothing to do with 'inerrancy' but everything to do with 'interpretation'. I have never believed in human infallibility which is why I distrust your 'inner witness' when it goes against God's biblical revelation. If I was looking for 'human infallibility' I would be unlikely to be searching for it among pseudo-Quakers.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/6/14 14:00Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Jake/Bubbaguy
I have a question for you. If your inner witness were wrong, how would you know? I suspect I know the answer; the community. So I will widen the question; if their inner witness were wrong, how would they know?


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Ron Bailey

 2005/6/15 4:18Profile









 Re:

Ron,

I would know that my inner witness was wrong if it ever told me to do something contrary to the teachings of Christ Jesus.

Bub

 2005/6/15 15:28
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I would know that my inner witness was wrong if it ever told me to do something contrary to the teachings of Christ Jesus.


How would you know what they were? Serious question, not a cheap jibe!


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/6/15 15:48Profile









 Re:

Ron, If you read the original post, you would know my answer already.

"You can read Jesus' teachings more literally than the OT because the cultures from which the NT came from was vastly more knowledgable and literate than in BC 4,000."

I don't buy your all or nothing approach to interpreting the Bible and you've known this for a long time. Why do you persist in trying to misrepresent and mischaracterize what I believe?

Bubbaguy

 2005/6/15 16:39
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I don't buy your all or nothing approach to interpreting the Bible and you've known this for a long time. Why do you persist in trying to misrepresent and mischaracterize what I believe?


I have never and never will 'try to misrepresent or mischaracterize' what you believe. My conscience would not allow be to do so. I only endeavour to make clear where your perceptions are coming from. My point in the last post was simply that you would have no teaching of Jesus to believe in if it were not for the men who wrote it. You pick and choose where it suits your preconceptions. Your beliefs are not based on the scriptures but on your reason supported by the scriptures. Your position is fundamentally different to almost everyone on the site. New folk are always arriving who may not see where your views are coming from; I will do my best to enlighten them.

Let me give you a public warning that if you persist in your private offensive emails to me I will publish them on site, so that people can see the real nature of your reactions.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/6/15 17:54Profile









 Re:

"New folk are always arriving who may not see where your views are coming from; I will do my best to enlighten them.

Let me give you a public warning that if you persist in your private offensive emails to me I will publish them on site, so that people can see the real nature of your reactions."

Ron, I wish you would let me speak for myself and not interpret what I post for others. Next, I have intended no offense, I simply want to discuss issues. That you find my beliefs "fundamentally different" is the whole point of discussion. Seems like you are looking for ditto, and are not interested in an honest debate. Then, threatening to post private messages is highly questionable from an ethical point of view. Don't you see this?????

Yes, I believe in evolution and do not interpret Genesis literally. Next, I have great difficulty with the writings of Paul because the man was a murdering, torturing thug before he had his experience on the road to Damascus. How many other murdering torturing thugs do you take spiritual advice and counsel from????? The man did accomplish much in spreading the Gospel, it's just that everything he preached and wrote was from the perspective of great guilt. It needs to be held in the proper light.

Then Revelations is an indeciferable mess of highly symbolic language. It is being widely used to justify end timers seeking to bring about armagedon. And what does it add to the teachings of Christ Jesus? WHat does it profit us to include it? Zip. We already know the Gospels, what more do we need?

Bubbaguy

 2005/6/20 16:26
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Jake writes

Quote:
Next, I have great difficulty with the writings of Paul because the man was a murdering, torturing thug before he had his experience on the road to Damascus. How many other murdering torturing thugs do you take spiritual advice and counsel from?????


I don't take spiritual advice and counsel from any 'murdering, torturing thugs' but I do submit to “... our beloved brother Paul (who) also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.”
(2Pet. 3:15-16, KJVS)Peter recognized that Paual had been given 'wisdom' and that Paul's writings were to be equated with 'the other scriptures'; in other words Paul's writings were scripture.

By the way, how do you know that he was a 'murdering, torturing thug'? By reading the Acts of the Apostles which also tell of his transformation in Christ. So you accept the testimony of the Acts as regards what he was but not what he became. It is this kind of inconsistency which makes your position wholly untenable. Do you read Acts with a blue censoring pencil in hand?

I now seriously doubt that you have had any real encounter with the risen Christ at all. One indelible characteristic of such is that they know they were capable of anything that Paul did and that Christ's power to forgive and renew which has transformed them also transformed Paul. If God had worked this miracle in you, you would have no difficulty in believing God could do it in Paul.

Paget Wilkes wrote that true Christian character was based on three responses; gratefulness to God, humility towards self, and generosity to others. All three, he said, were based on a deep personal experience of God's forgiveness. I know that I could have done anything that Paul or Hitler or Stalin did. The evil that was in them was not worse than that which was in me; I only lacked opportunity. Because I know God has forgiven and cleansed me from my own murderous thoughts and spirit; I have no difficulty in being generous to 'forgiven murderers' and have met more than one or two. I have enjoyed with them the sweet fellowship of 'forgiven sinners' and 'men and women made new in the power of God's Spirit'.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/6/20 17:41Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

I want to note something about the book of REValation
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Seems to me the disciple whom Jesus loved understood it to be pretty important, it's the only book written that offers the reader direct blessings for reading it.


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D.Miller

 2005/6/20 17:42Profile









 Re: interpreting - re Bubba

Quote:
How many other murdering torturing thugs do you take spiritual advice and counsel from?????



In a similar, but different response to philologos, my experience of trying to forgive is that it is very difficult until one has been forgiven.

There is also the small matter of Romans 2 which is dear to my own heart and before which I stood condemned through judging others for sins I committed myself.

1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

So Bubba, are you offering spiritual advice from this unsteady platform? ... Just a thought.

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

 2005/6/20 22:17





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