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Discussion Forum : General Topics : my experience with local church movement so far (Philippines)

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joliboy11
Member



Joined: 2011/9/16
Posts: 198
Philippines

 Re:

I'm planning to go to another meeting in other locale this sunday (the one I've talked on the phone).

have me in your prayers..

I want to check this out myself..
have any of you had first hand experiences? and what practices do you found disturbing?

 2017/1/10 23:30Profile
joliboy11
Member



Joined: 2011/9/16
Posts: 198
Philippines

 Re:

Just been there on sunday,

I think I have better company here,

On the prophesying service, they share on what they "enjoy" on the book they are reading, compiled by Witness Lee..
on this instance they mostly talk about the typologies, pictures of Christ and the church in the old testament, but good thing someone ask, "what then is the application of this to us?". but mostly i can't relate much though I share a little. I even found some of my church mates there before! the one I leave after I've been really born-again.

When i saw many books of witness Lee on a shelf, one brother said that they don't make much of it. I think they just have an insistent practice that they don't insist?

On their view of salvation I think they are "Calvinist" though they don't call it that way..

and they don't focus much on personal salvation / holiness they have a different emphasis, like "God dwelling His people"?

They are also pre-tribulation on Rapture.

What I enjoy is their company after the service, we ate together.. have some conversations and I ask some of their beliefs.. I found that they have a very detailed interpretation of the Bible but not dogmatic about it (I hope so)..

They also practice head covering.
They also ask me to be baptize in water. Of which I like to - next sunday with my fiance..
Yes we have been "out of church" for a while until now..

 2017/1/15 23:42Profile
StirItUp
Member



Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 677
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

Thanks for the feedback, brother.

Please keep sharing your experiences, if possible, so we can all learn from it.

Blessings,


_________________
William

 2017/1/16 1:43Profile
StirItUp
Member



Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 677
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

Please also read this, a PDF document available on the Internet, written by prominent Christian apologists and leaders: http://www.contendingforthefaith.com/eBooks/Hanegraaff-Passantino-Fuller.pdf


_________________
William

 2017/1/16 4:35Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1448


 Re:

The problem that I find with all those who are trying to evaluate the witness Lee's groups is they are only interested in their theology. Theology wise the Devil even has the best theology. He knows everything about salvation. He knows the Bible in and out. So it is not the theology that they hold that will identify them as Cult or not. We will easily get deceived if we check only their theology.

The use of one mans book for all their teachings instead of relying on the Holy Spirit to give them revelation from Bible should raise a cult alert. I am not saying this makes them a Cult, because I am not sure how much they rely on Lee's book. But if it is their primary source to interpret the Bible then I have serious concerns.

In our churches, for us to Baptize someone, they should be part of the Church for some time (at least 6 months). Without knowing someone, we are not willing to Baptize anyone. This is a Biblical stand. Baptizing someone is a serious thing, one cannot Baptize everyone just because they are visiting our Church. Even Apostle Paul was very cautious on who he Baptized (1 Corn 1:14).

I am sure someone (self appointed SI Police) will attack me for saying this, quoting how in Acts they readily Baptized anyone who has believed. But in Acts time, there was a serious persecution. One can even lose their life for getting baptized in the name of Jesus. Today such environment exists in some parts of the world. In that part, if someone wants to be baptized in the name of Jesus then immediately we can. But in the west where there is no Physical persecution for faith, anyone can take a decision for get baptized without counting the Cost. Jesus himself advised his followers to Count the Cost.

So the eagerness to Baptize someone is also a cult alert.


_________________
Sreeram

 2017/1/16 12:49Profile
StirItUp
Member



Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 677
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

Hi Sree,

I appreciate your concern and completely agree that it is dangerous to follow only the teaching of one man.
I don't know if they do this since I have had no contact with them at all except via their website and reading some of the material.

I simply shared the link so that our brother can make his own mind up after visiting with them a few times. I also advise caution as a believer should never make hasty decisions.

Please can you tell us why you are so worried about this movement? Is it because of what you have heard, or seen for yourself?

Blessings,


_________________
William

 2017/1/16 14:22Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1448


 Re:

Quote:

Please can you tell us why you are so worried about this movement? Is it because of what you have heard, or seen for yourself?



Mainly because of what I have heard. I have not seen it myself. I am also interested in what the Poster experiences in these local churches. The importance this movement gives to Local Churches is very similar to what I believe. But many of their activities are not.

There was a Godly brother in our fellowships in India who joined this group. Later he took few people from our fellowship as well into this group. I have nothing against him for leaving or even taking others with him, it is all for good and cleansing of fellowship. I too heard the complaints like frequent repetition of certain terms. I cannot discuss everything that I have heard in this public forum. Some of them might be subjective observation.

If they are not cults then I will be very happy for them as they are doing a work very similar to what I believe is much needed in Christendom today.


_________________
Sreeram

 2017/1/16 16:53Profile
joliboy11
Member



Joined: 2011/9/16
Posts: 198
Philippines

 Re:

brothers if anyone has a firsthand experience, can you share them. Though i know churches vary on different localities.

Also I know that theology is not what makes a cult, a cult. Though it play a major part specially on how they insist it.

Regarding baptism, the sister approach me that it does not mean that I should then be part of their local church. I then share Philip baptizing an Ethiopian and just leave the scene after.

Just pray for me that I will not act just base on pressure from the group just to find acceptance.

But good thing full time workers has no monthly salary, no offering part even on the service. They practice freely giving and just depending on the Lord.

Has anyone has an idea why they pray that way?
And what is the empahsis of their Theology?

 2017/1/16 23:19Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3696


 Re:

Some time ago I was given Witness Lee's Bible translation - for me to evaluate. In my research I did find a number of peculiarities, translation errors, and so forth. I'm not sure I could find my review, but reviews are up there on the internet.

Based on my discoveries, if I were in your shoes I would check around some more for a church. However, you do have the Spirit who is your final authority. There may be many reasons why God would wish you to be there - perhaps to train you to think, discern, and to show merciful kindness to those who don't have it perfect.
Just use a different Bible translation!

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2017/1/17 11:55Profile
TakeUptheCross
Member



Joined: 2016/8/10
Posts: 83
Germany

 Re:

Brother,

I can share shortly my exerience. I have first come to know a group of people through Bible distribution in my locality. We then had some wonderful time together and so I understood that they followed the teachings of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee. At that time there was a conference to be held and so I decided to go (I must confess hastily...).

But I spent some 2 days with them and also took part in one house meeting. There are several things that I admire: they are warm and welcoming, they sing almost constantly.

But on the other hand I had really difficulties accepting some of their practices and doctrines.

1. Yes, they do believe that once you are saved, you will never be lost (or you will have eternal life - no matter what). This is frankly unbiblical and very dangerous!

2. "Calling on the name of the Lord" - I have never understood the verse (2 Timothy 2:22; 1 Peter 1:17) as literally repeating the name of the Lord constantly. I do not believe that the first believers did it either.

3. Preaching : as you mentioned earlier there were books from Witness Lee. I am not generally against Christian books. I have read some books of Watchman Nee and can only recommend them to any believer (The Normal Christian Life, "Sit, Walk, Stand", The Overcoming Life). I truly believe that Watchman Nee was a servant of the Lord. Having said that, I think we should be very careful.

I believe that it is very important that the preacher (or elder) knows himself personally the Lord! Because if he is blind - he cannot lead other blind people (what to say about the seeing) to life or to Christ even if he has all the right theology in a book. (And that applies actually to EVERY CHURCH. So using books for preaching - we should be careful there.

The other thing that disturbs me actually more is the emphasis put on the teachings by W.Lee. And so I fear the people get indoctrinated without really knowing the Lord. ..

Personally, I find it very difficult to read the writings of W. Lee. I have tried several times and I find myself just struggling with so much words.

But I will advise you to be very careful. I can understand that you really enjoy talking with other people after the service, that is generally also good and necessary. We must always beware that the church does not turn just into social gathering! Wherever you go to church, your Number ONE PRIORITY is and should be to WORSHIP GOD! And God Himself must be pleased!

Pray and pray, continue to pray! Being a part of godly church is very important!

As for me, I still keep contact with some of them, but I do not worship with them. It will be difficult for me to do so, for the reasons above mentioned.

May the Lord lead you into His gates!


_________________
Esther

 2017/1/17 14:13Profile





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