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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Is Alcohol Use Among Christians The New 'Golden Calf'? by Shane Idleman

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Heydave
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 Re:

Drifter, but is 'your Jesus' different to the Jesus of the bible?


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Dave

 2017/1/7 18:48Profile
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 Re:

"Drifter, but is 'your Jesus' different to the Jesus of the bible?"
Absolutely not.

Please answer the question: Is there a difference between ingesting drugs and drinking alcohol?


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Nigel Holland

 2017/1/7 18:54Profile
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"Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things" (Proverbs 23:29-33).

"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging; and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise" (Proverbs 20:1).

". . . wine and new wine take away the heart . . ." (Hosea 4:11)

"It is not for kings to drink wine, nor for princes strong drink, lest they drink and forget the law . . ." (Proverbs 31:4,5)

Christ came to fulfill the law! The law says, "Wine is a mocker . . . whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." Was Christ deceived? Would he have served a drink that would have led to a man leaving a feast drunken to beat up his wife? And in court that man is asked, "How did you get so drunk?" And the convicted man answers, "I went to a wedding feast. Jesus of Nazareth served up a really strong drink. He got me drunk." (Wilkerson)


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Nigel Holland

 2017/1/7 19:04Profile
Heydave
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"Please answer the question: Is there a difference between ingesting drugs and drinking alcohol?"

Yes absolutely there is a difference. Even the world knows there is a difference. Drugs give you an immediate high, drugs are taken for the sole purpose of getting high. Although some people can use alcoholic drinks like this, this is not neccesarily true for many people.

Now answer this question.... why are elders told they should not be given to MUCH (exccesive) wine. Why does it not say NO WINE and imply that reasonable, moderate wine use is OK? Why did Jesus say he drank and John did not?


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Dave

 2017/1/7 19:17Profile
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I love you all, and I apologize if I came across as angry; but I see so many people whose lives are ruined by this garbage. Adopting a position which is lenient towards alcohol use might stumble new believers. I'll not accept that saints are allowed to drink, even if some scriptures seem to support it, like Isaiah 26:5

Asking me a question like "Is your Jesus the Jesus of the Bible" really hurt. I love Jesus with all my heart.


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Nigel Holland

 2017/1/7 19:23Profile
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There is no difference. Even one beer or glass of wine puts you into an altered state of mind. Same with one toke from a joint or just a little snort of cocaine.

And as to your question: I don't know. All I know is that I will not try to use scriptures like that to justify use of intoxicating substances. That's kind of like saying "David had multiple wives, so I can too."


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Nigel Holland

 2017/1/7 19:29Profile
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I can't conceive that Jesus would mock that crowd and serve a drink that could have been abused if taken immoderately. I believe that elixir Jesus served was the pure juice of the vine - a supernatural punch so full of nature's true blend, it was a unique and welcome change! Would Jesus add alcoholic content to His supernatural drink and make it "bite the cup" when the law said -
"Look not upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moveth itself aright . . ." (Proverbs 23:31)?
-David Wilkerson


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Nigel Holland

 2017/1/7 19:33Profile
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"Children prenatally exposed to alcohol can suffer from serious cognitive deficits and behavioral problems as well as from alcohol-related changes in brain structure. Neuropsychological studies have identified deficits in learning and memory as well as in executive functioning both in children with fetal alcohol syndrome and in children with less severe impairments. Both groups of children also exhibit problem behaviors, such as alcohol and drug use, hyperactivity, impulsivity, and poor socialization and communication skills."
-National Institute On Alcohol Abuse And Alcoholism

Would Jesus produce something like this? Something that has destroyed more families and lives than any other drug (and alcohol IS a drug)?


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Nigel Holland

 2017/1/7 19:48Profile
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 Re:

Nigel- wine is spoke of favorably and unfavorably in scripture. There is no way to get around it. So the question to ask is "why does scripture speak of it favorably and unfavorably?"

In regard to your argument that wine was non alcoholic back then, you can't have your cake and eat it to, meaning you can't cite verses on the evils of drunkenness and at the same time believe that wine was non alcoholic.

David Wilkerson is wrong on that point. It's ok- he was still an amazing man of God.


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Todd

 2017/1/7 20:02Profile
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 Re:

In reference to something like the water made into wine, that, I believe, is non alcoholic.
In reference to the warnings in Proverbs, the wine is alcoholic.
I agree wholeheartedly with David Wilkerson on this subject.

I would also ask: Has anyone here ever seen any beneficial effects of drinking alcohol?

All I have ever seen any intoxicating substance do is wreck lives. As a child, I was forced to watch my parents get high day after day, going hungry many days, not knowing where they were. I was depressed and hurting because of their neglect, eventually turning to drugs and alcohol myself. I have known many people, including friends, slowly lose their minds and their lives because of drugs and alcohol. I see people I work with live for nothing more than to get drunk on the weekends (and in many cases weekdays).
And some people want to justify alcohol because it gives them a buzz, and try to make the bible say that?
Alcohol is a demonic stronghold that must be torn down. Plain and simple.


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Nigel Holland

 2017/1/7 21:58Profile





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