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Discussion Forum : General Topics : What Do We Do About Sin?

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Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re:

The death here is exaggerated. The only death that happens is the death of the Old man who was freely yielding to Sin. When a person is born again, the old man dies and God creates a new man. The new man now still lives in same old flesh. Hence he has to be strengthened everyday to fight against his own flesh and its passions. If he is not strengthened everyday then he falls to the same old flesh again and lives defeated. So even after we are born again we can still fall.

Other than this there is a daily death that each one of us should carry in our body. This is what Jesus mentioned when he said, "carry the cross everyday". It is not a one time death but everyday death.

One time death is easy to believe and live in some imaginary victories life where the person still lives in Sin but closes his eyes and says he is dead to Sin. A truly death to Sin should lead to Christlikeness and perfection. But none of us are perfectly sinless, hence it proves that there is no One time death at all.


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Sreeram

 2017/1/4 8:13Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
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 Re:

Sree-

What you are saying makes much more sense to me.


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Todd

 2017/1/4 10:35Profile
Heydave
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Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

I think James Campbell has articulated the position very well (if I understand him correctly).

I think much of the confusion is the term 'sin nature' or 'Adamic nature', which is used (unfortunately) in place of the 'flesh' by some translations of the bible like the NIV. It is not a biblical term and leads to the confusion that a believer has two natures within him (two spirits?) competing equally against each other. This is spiritual schizophrenia.

The bible actually does say the Spirit battles against 'the flesh (not another spirit in us). The flesh is not the Old Man' because we can put off the old man (Clossians 3:9 and Eph 4:22) because it was crucified with Christ, but the flesh will always be with us.

What does it mean to Reckon ourselves (the old man) dead?

I agree with James when he wrote " The meaning of death is not to cease existing but to be divided or separated from life or something we hold dear."

I recently watch a film about the old King of great Britain, King George 6th. In one part he said something interesting to this discussion. He was being asked to intervene in a government matter and it was said that if he could not do this as King, maybe he could advise on the basis of a personal relationship tjat he had before being king and just 'Bertie' as he was called then. He said 'Bertie' no longer exists, he died when I became 'King George' and King George cannot intervene even if he wants to. He could only serve the constitution and his position as King. He forfeited his rights to serve himself.

This is how we are to approach sin. We reckon ourselves to have died to that old man that served sin and therefore our obligation is to serve righteousness and not sin or self.
It is not some outside event that somehow mysteriously killed off our old self, but a reckoning of our new life and obedience to Christ.


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Dave

 2017/1/4 11:20Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

Very good discussion.

Somethings to consider as we read the various views of how to approach Sanctification.

Is the view that we believe exclusive to Biblical Christianity or would it work without the Gospel ?

Who gets the Glory for our victories : Us or the Lord ?

Does our view cause us to be critical of others ? does it cause us to hold disdain for others ? Does it cause us to always be comparing ourselves to others ? or does it cause us to desire to share our understanding to help others whom might be struggling with the same defeats as what we have found victory over ?





 2017/1/4 12:18Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: What Do We Do About Sin?

Quote:
by JamesECampbellJr
Many people blame sin on our adamic nature. Is there another way to explain why people would do, think, and feel bad things?


Every single one of us is going to come up short and sin till the...day...we...die,

BUT!!! What makes us set apart is the man/woman who acknowledges it and repents quickly. David cried that his 'sin was ever before him."

The Lord is good and His mercy endures forever!

God bless,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2017/1/4 13:55Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re:

Quote:

Every single one of us is going to come up short and sin till the...day...we...die,

BUT!!! What makes us set apart is the man/woman who acknowledges it and repents quickly. David cried that his 'sin was ever before him."

The Lord is good and His mercy endures forever!




We need to define the 2 types of sins for this statement to be true. It is not God's will that a born again christian will fall and sin. So a truly born again christian should be able to walk without falling. So the statement that we will keep sinning till The Day is not Biblically correct.

There are conscious and unconscious sins. Conscious sins are those that we are very clear is sin in our life and have repented in past. There is no reason for us to fall for them again. If not then God should be a liar because he has promised that "Sin will not be master over you". If we sin then we are slaves to sin according to Jesus. Hence if we fall to any sin that we know is Sin then Romans 6:14 is not true in our life.

Unconscious sins are those that are still sin but we are not aware of. Our mind is not yet renewed or enlightened to see them inside us. The more we overcome the conscious sins in our life, God will shed light on the unconscious sins in our life. But as long as we repent from these unconscious sins, the moment we find in them, we are progressing towards Chirstlikeness. This is were repentance comes into picture.

It is because of unconscious sins that John said, "if we say we are without sin then we make him a liar". It is because of them that Paul says -" My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me." 1 Cor 4-4.


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Sreeram

 2017/1/4 14:22Profile
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 Re:

I still say christians sin because they want to. Nothing is forcing them to; they simply make a choice.

The problem with saying things like "you have been crucified with Christ" and the "old man has been put to death" and "you must reckon yourself dead to sin" is that-- while obviously biblical-- it is hard to state exactly what these things mean from a *practical* standpoint.

For example, if a brother approaches me to discuss a besetting sin that is troubling him, and I say "dude, just reckon yourself dead to sin man!" it is nothing but hippie talk that will not do him one whit of good. I have been a Christian for a long time and I have no confidence I could adequately explain what it means to "reckon yourself dead to sin."

It's like telling a smoker who wants to quit to just reckon themselves dead to cigarettes. That sounds a lot to me like telling them to pretend they aren't addicted to nicotine, but what I *should* be telling them is to just stop smoking cigarettes.


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Todd

 2017/1/4 14:39Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE : ///For example, if a brother approaches me to discuss a besetting sin that is troubling him, and I say "dude, just reckon yourself dead to sin man!" it is nothing but hippie talk that will not do him one whit of good. I have been a Christian for a long time and I have no confidence I could adequately explain what it means to "reckon yourself dead to sin."///

As long as a drunk believes that he is a drunk he will continue to be a drunk : either a practicing drunk or else a recovering drunk.

Same for the porno addict, homosexual etc.

But if these men believed that what they where in the past is now dead.
That the old drunk the old porno addict the old homosexual is now dead. That they no longer have to identify as the such they no longer have to be held by the snare of the guilt of there past failures.
Than they would find freedom to : "walk in newness of life"

 2017/1/4 15:15Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 

"The Bible’s purpose is not so much to show you how to live a good life. The Bible’s purpose is to show you how God’s grace breaks into your life against your will and saves you from the sin and brokenness otherwise you would never be able to overcome… religion is ‘if you obey, then you will be accepted’. But the Gospel is, ‘if you are absolutely accepted, and sure you’re accepted, only then will you ever begin to obey’. Those are two utterly different things. Every page of the Bible shows the difference." - Tim Keller

 2017/1/4 15:20Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re:

Quote:

For example, if a brother approaches me to discuss a besetting sin that is troubling him, and I say "dude, just reckon yourself dead to sin man!" it is nothing but hippie talk that will not do him one whit of good. I have been a Christian for a long time and I have no confidence I could adequately explain what it means to "reckon yourself dead to sin."



First thing is the man who has a besetting sin should believe that his condition is not normal. That is why he has come to you asking for a solution. If he believes that having a besetting sin is normal as long as he repents everytime he falls then he will not ask for a solution. The need for a solution is a proof that there is some problem. The desire to repent is a proof that God's spirit is still striving with him. But God's spirit will not always strive with man (Gen 6:3).

I was in that space even after I was born again. The only reason was that I was not broken by then. God allowed me to hit the rock bottom of moral failure. He then showed me how much I trusted in my own abilities. The new man has to be strengthened. If he trusts in his own power, then the new man will fall prey to flesh. But if he trusts in the power of God then the new man will be renewed day by day with fresh power.

All our falling is a proof that we are unbroken!
The practical advice will be to ask him to focus on things that will strengthen the New man like fellowship of Godly brothers, God's word, prayer...


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Sreeram

 2017/1/4 15:50Profile





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