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aeryck
Member



Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 Re: Believe means what, exactly?

Hi Delboy,

I agree a mental decision is no more than lip service, there needs to be the complete surrender of the will, when we first come to Christ.

The words to this song by Phil Keaggy says it quite well:-

In the distance there stands a wild horse
Proud and persistent to run it's own course
Entering through no other doors
But those he has made for himself

In his own eyes, he's the prince of all
Clever and wise, he heeds to no call
Ever denies that he could fall
Depending on nobody else

As time went on he came upon the thought that he was lonely
He felt the fear, he cried the tear, He knew he was not the only

The rider whose name is True begins to seek
And He opens his eyes to find, His stallion meek

Then came that moment, with no-one in sight
But a horse with no name, and the rider in white
Filled with compassion for his plight
The stallion he claimed for his own

As time had past there came at last
The lifting of his burden
His strengh renewed, with gratitude and joy
He became a servant

The rider has come in view, His form unique
And He's chosen to ride upon His stallion meek.

copyright 1976 Free Love Publishing

In Jesus,
.A.
:-P


_________________
Eric John Sawyer

 2005/6/13 16:22Profile
Delboy
Member



Joined: 2004/2/8
Posts: 199
Worthing UK

 Re: wild horses ?

Hi A,
great lyrics,forgive but let me carry on the picture
Many wild horses become muzelled and are forced under control via a bridle to every onlooker the horse looks under control but is'nt.When the TRUE rider comes He knows the horse and sets the horse free to be...
of course the picture like all pictures fall short of the fullest,this came to mind while reading the words from the song. :-)


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derek Eyre

 2005/6/13 18:00Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I believe that the proper understanding of what it means 'to believe' is contained in the first commandment.

It is, in that the first commandment requires obedience which is an activity of faith.
“[u]By faith[/u] Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, [u]obeyed[/u]; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.”
(Heb. 11:8, KJVS)... by faith Abraham... obeyed.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/6/14 4:11Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

“Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.”
(Psa. 32:9, KJVS)


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Ron Bailey

 2005/6/14 4:14Profile
aeryck
Member



Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 Re: Believe means what, exactly?

Yo philologos:

[your certainly are busy on this thread.]

Looking at the true meaning of believing, always has two aspects. God's part and our part.

I spent many years focussing on God's part, and then realized that in order to really present the truth, I needed to understand 'our part'.

Keith Green's two articles, have really opened the eyes of my heart.

[What's wrong with the Gospel?][What's missing from the Gospel?] He spoke about the function of the Law in the winning of others to Christ.

Jesus spoke of how the Holy Spirit will convict the world of sin, [why?] because they do not believe...[]...believing in John's first epistle always links obedience and believing together.

Whoever said, simple is easy, forgot that 60 000 pages of information is extracted from one strain of DNA.

In Jesus
.A.
:-P

ps.

Oh yeah, I agree with you about Abraham, especially the direct references to him in James.

The other reference about horses, seem to also come up as [wild] tongues..in James again..the small member that can steer the whole body. Amazing.


_________________
Eric John Sawyer

 2005/6/14 8:05Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Unless God is revealed there can be no faith.

Getting back to the issue of 'Faith' and Christ being set forth evidently among the people; I had a few passages of scripture come to mind as I was meditating on these things. The one deals with the woman at the well in John 4 and how the revelation of her life by Christ revealed in her the reality of Christ. It is as though when our Lord manifest this woman’s life a light went on inside her and she ‘perceived’ that He was a prophet. The longer He spoke the greater the light became and she then considered that He might be the Christ. As He manifest ‘her’ to ‘her’- He manifest Himself to her.

Here we see the results:

[i]Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ? Then they went out of the city, and came unto him[/i] (v. 29-30).

The other is in the Old Testament and deals with the revelation of Sarah laughing and the Lord hearing it. When she was confronted by the Angel she denied it. Yet what did he say to her; nay, but thou didst laugh. I believe that this sealed her faith in God like nothing else could have. It is the most comforting rebuke that a human being could possibly experience. It is as if Sarah could say, “yea I didst laugh and so too I shall have a child in mine old age.” The revelation of her heart was a revelation of God to her. When God revealed her to her- He revealed Himself to her.

So too then we must have the manifestation of God in our midst in some real prophetic way. We often think of the Corinthian church as carnal- and yet when was the last time someone came into a meeting of ours and fell on his face knowing the God was among us based upon the revelation of his life before God. Here we read:

[i]But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.[/i] (I Corinthians 14:24-25).

I don't mean to blur two different threads here- but it seems evident that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word (rhema) of God. God used a few different means in the above illustrations to accomplish the same end. He 'manifested' the person [u]to[/u] the person and in so doing manifested Himself to them. These are personal encounters with God that cannot be ignored- only resisted. The individual walks away knowing that God has dealt with them.

I believe that this is the great missing element in our evangelism efforts. The question is; "Is Christ set forth evidently among the people?" Is their verifiable 'evidence' that God is among us?

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/6/14 11:37Profile
aeryck
Member



Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 Re:Believe means what, exactly?

Oh most definitely you are right on target RobertW.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [John 1:12]

This was the original scripture that this thread is meditating upon, and asking 'Believe means what, exactly?'

The following Scripture has many elements of this as well; don't you think?:

The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Joh 20:25-31

In Jesus
.A.
:-P


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Eric John Sawyer

 2005/6/14 16:22Profile
preacher_ish
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Joined: 2005/6/9
Posts: 22
Atmore, AL

 Re: Believe means what, exactly?

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [John 1:12]

To confess (hom-logeo)what the Word of God states concerning our sin and His Christ.

I was thinking on Abraham. The scripture states that he believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness. Oft times in his life he did not live like he believed God, absence of faith, so to speak. After chpt 20..... something happened, he started living his faith manifested.

preacher_ish


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Brother Dennis

 2005/6/14 19:32Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Could it be that because Christ is not set forth evidently among the people that the whole message has to be altered and manipulated in order to get folks to 'respond.' For example; to present God as a God of holiness without some sort of demonstration of His majesty would yield 'pharisee' converts. There are not many people n that line in this generation- so the message gets watered down because there is no demonstration of God's majesty in order to encounter the one whom they are being asked to come into covenant with. What happens? The terms of the covenant are watered down in direct proportion to the absence of His majesty. And we wonder why there are so few converts?

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/6/15 10:38Profile
aeryck
Member



Joined: 2005/1/11
Posts: 234
United Kingdom

 Re: Believe means what, exactly?

Oh you are so right on target, RobertW.

Quote:
'Could it be that because Christ is not set forth evidently among the people that the whole message has to be altered and manipulated in order to get folks to 'respond.'



I was washing dishes and thinking and listening to Tozer on the mp3 player. 'Why some can't receive the Holy Spirit.' It is evident that though man changes the Gospel, God does not change his standard.

I have this strong conviction inside me that the term 'believe' in context [John 1:12} means a complete surrender of the will to Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:9-11[check this text]

I think it is time to reel in the big guns, you know the old commentaries etc....The older the better, does anyone have a commentary of this by Martin Luther, or Erasmus. Or older.... Oh we are so lost without proper understanding. Lord, open the eyes of my heart.

Here we go,
In Jesus
.A.
:-P


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Eric John Sawyer

 2005/6/15 14:11Profile





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