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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : The superiority of the Spirit over the written Word - John Chrysostom

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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:


There definitely is a mystery in the Blood and Body of Jesus Christ in communion when done in reverence and faith.

"this is.."

"communion with..."

John 6:54 New International Version (NIV)

54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.



The Roman catholics and Greek orthodox try and claim Chrysostom, but he was neither of theirs.

It is like ourselves being in a modern movement trying to claim the Waldensian leader was actually one of us, where if he was actually alive would disagree with possibly many things we held to.


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 2016/12/16 13:49Profile
forrests
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 Re: The superiority of the Spirit over the written Word - John Chrysostom

Brother Greg,

I was blessed by the OP. I was just listening to Tozer's "Pursuit of God" here on SI and it sounded very similar. Here are a couple examples:

Quote:
"The modern scientist has lost God amid the wonders of His world; we Christians are in real danger of losing God amid the wonders of His Word. We have almost forgotten that God is a Person and, as such, can be cultivated as any person can. It is inherent in personality to be able to know other personalities, but full knowledge of one personality by another cannot be achieved in one encounter. It is only after long and loving mental intercourse that the full possibilities of both can be explored.

All social intercourse between human beings is a response of personality to personality, grading upward from the most casual brush between man and man to the fullest, most intimate communion of which the human soul is capable. Religion, so far as it is genuine, is in essence the response of created personalities to the Creating Personality, God. “This is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”"



And:

Quote:
"We have been snared in the coils of a spurious logic which insists that if we have found Him we need no more seek Him. This is set before us as the last word in orthodoxy, and it is taken for granted that no Bible-taught Christian ever believed otherwise. Thus the whole testimony of the worshipping, seeking, singing Church on that subject is crisply set aside. The experiential heart-theology of a grand army of fragrant saints is rejected in favor of a smug interpretation of Scripture which would certainly have sounded strange to an Augustine, a Rutherford or a Branierd.

"In the midst of this great chill there are some, I rejoice to acknowledge, who will not be content with shallow logic. They will admit the force of the argument, and then turn away with tears to hunt some lonely place and pray, “O God, show me thy glory.” They want to taste, to touch with their hearts, to see with their inner eyes the wonder that is God."



And one more:

Quote:
"I have said that Abraham possessed nothing. Yet was not this poor man rich? Everything he had owned before was still his to enjoy: sheep, camels, herds, and goods of every sort. He had also his wife and his friends, and best of all he had his son Isaac safe by his side. He had everything, but he possessed nothing. There is the spiritual secret. There is the sweet theology of the heart which can be learned only in the school of renunciation. The books on systematic theology overlook this, but the wise will understand."


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 2016/12/16 14:03Profile
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Quote:
we conclude that ... the stubborn sectaries must be put to death."



Though there were 116 laws against other sects and anabaptists in germany, some very strict, I would like to see original source evidence for this statement, all I can find is other catholic websites quoting it and it seems like not a full quote.

Source: Dave Armstrong. "Pamphlet of 1536" in Martin Luther and The Protestant Inquisition
(Janssen, X, 222-223; pamphlet of 1536)

Dave Armstrong runs a catholic apologetics blog.


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 2016/12/16 14:04Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
by awakened on 2016/12/16 10:47:28
Where in the scripture are we told to never disown or disregard the teaching and practices of any man...no matter how popular and famous they might be?



Did someone make this claim?


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 2016/12/16 14:06Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
by FrankLira on 2016/12/15 12:44:45

Just how is the Spirit superior over the God's written word? Jesus is the Word made flesh.



I guess I don't get the correlation...

Jesus surely isn't a book which became a man, no? He is the Logos made flesh...which, interestingly, is what the Spirit is given to us for...to make us, in a sense, the word of God made flesh. No?

The Law is God's word, too...and yet God says (through His apostle, Paul) that the "letter kills" and the "Spirit gives life". Sounds like he found the ministry of the Spirit much more glorious than that of the letter...

I believe that is what the quote in the OP was getting at. That God prefers vital, living communion through His Spirit in yours (the word written on the heart - the Law of Life), but due to our, let's say...infancy, He communicates to us by written word as a provisional measure. But it is a means, not an end.

Quote:
"You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life."

~ Jesus the Bread of Life; John 5:39-40


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~ Forrest

 2016/12/16 14:17Profile









 Re:

"So we do not disown martin luther, why would we Chrysostom?

They were not perfect but used of God, none-the-less."

This is the same flawed logic to support that false teacher John Calvin and his followers who committed atrocities in the "name of God"

There is a very good reason the Church is built on Christ and the Apostles, not on the Protestant reformers.

 2016/12/16 14:37
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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Quote:
false teacher John Calvin



Brother,

Unfortunately I would have to disagree with you, he was a man who had flaws also but knew God and was used of the Lord. The protestants were not perfect and were under pressures that were cultural and geographic. Similar to American evangelicals in our day that side with America and war.

We are glad to have messages by John Calvin on SermonIndex, alonside Anabaptists, in heaven we will realize that perhaps more of use understand less then we thought. I already admit that I see very dimly and just "in part" (1 Corinthians 13). May our eyes be on Jesus Christ Himself, not on men who are frail and even fail.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=category&cid=272


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2016/12/16 15:01Profile









 Re:

Disowning both these men's deeply flawed religious views would be most appropriate. The Nazi's used their writings with terrible effect to inflame the seething underling hatred of the Jewish nation that is always present in many people A terrible legacy that further greatly hampered the cause of Christ to the Jewish people. To me its poisoned everything else that they wrote that sounded orthodox. And much of it was not even close to being biblical irregardless.
The reformation was a work of the Holy Spirit, not Martin Luther or any other
religious "leader"

 2016/12/16 15:10









 Re:

John 6:54 New International Version

54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Are you suggesting that the communion bread is somehow transformed into the literal, physical body of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Are you suggesting that the communion wine is somehow transformed into the literal, physical blood of the Lord Jesus Christ?

 2016/12/16 15:18
forrests
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Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301


 Re:

Brother, do you see the difference in what was actually said and what you claimed was said in your reply?

What was said:

Quote:
"So we do not disown martin luther, why would we Chrysostom?

They were not perfect but used of God, none-the-less."



What you asked in response to what was said, actually twisting what was said a bit (imo):

Quote:
Where in the scripture are we told to never disown or disregard the teaching and practices of any man...no matter how popular and famous they might be?



The original comment (above) didn't make a claim about what scripture says, nor did it forbid or discourage one to ever "disown or disregard the teaching and practices" in any circumstance..

That is not what the brother said at all.

He was pointing out that many cherish certain truth that Luther taught that they perceive is in accordance with scripture, in spite of the fact that he held positions that those same people would argue are at odds with God's word. He was appealing for us to use this same wisdom when dealing with Chrysostom. Judge and discern what is being said and don't overreact and "throw the baby out with the bathwater", so to speak, because you find fault with dome point of the mans theology/doctrine. That's all.

If we were to only ever listen to people we agree with 100% on every point, we would never learn or grow and we may be the only one we could "listen to" after awhile...such a position would reveal an ugly pride that secretly believes we know everything perfectly and we become the measure and standard of doctrine.

I listen to and read Spurgeon and am greatly blessed by him, though I strongly disagree with Calvinism and TULIP. Surely there are preachers/teachers (brothers and servants of the Lord, really) that you are blessed by and you disagree with them in some area...no?

We also need to be careful not to look far back in history and judge these men of God based on the gospel light that we are currently standing in, without taking into consideration the sometimes overwhelming general spiritual darkness of the times that some of them were living in - and they were rising above the error of their day and grasping and reclaiming precious truth. They didn't get it all at once, but they did bring us some. Each his own measure. And let us have patience, grace and understanding for them where they fell short, knowing that we stand on the shoulders of many mighty saints of God and we too can still hold on to false beliefs and be dogmatic about things we ought not - even in spite of our advantages.


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 2016/12/16 15:20Profile





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