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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : "CHRISTMAS – CHRISTIAN OR PAGAN?" by Zac Poonen

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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7429
Mississippi

 Re:

It seems as though every year someone will bring this issue to this forum: the Bible does not teach us to celebrate the birth of Jesus, especially at Christmas time. And this is true. No where can one go to the scriptures that informs one to do so.

However, let us take a step back and see what it does say and NOT say.

Human nature is such that we love to celebrate happy events, like weddings, or any other exciting event - people love to gather together to feast in memorial of something that was special. Or, maybe we just love to get together to eat and fellowship and need a good reason to do so?!

The OT law does not specify that a wedding with feasting should accompany the union of a man and woman. Jesus performed his first miracle at a wedding. This wedding/feast was not something commanded in their scriptures yet he legitimized it by his attendance and providing it with needed drink.

Consider the time when Esther saved her people from certain destruction. The people were so gratified they set aside a day of remembrance called Purim that was celebrated. Never does one read of any prophet that came along rebuking them for such celebrating.

As I see it we do well to not get slack in celebrating rituals the NT sets forth for Believers to observe and we do these with diligence and joy. These other events we love to celebrate serve well to enhance the human experience of togetherness - nothing wrong with that.

This is the way I understand it....

Taking a trip down memory lane, now....I recall as a child how fascinated I was with the traditional Nativity scene of a stable with Mary, Joseph and the baby in the manger. So fascinated was I that I loved to draw pictures of it. Even after 60+ years I can still vividly recall the emotion of awe with this scene. In some things a body never does quite grow up....and I do not apologize!

Sandra



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Sandra Miller

 2016/12/14 8:45Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I believe there are 4 types of Christians.



5. People who joyfully celebrate Christmas and have lots of fun!!!

Seriously guys, don't we have something better to do than discuss these kinds of topics?

 2016/12/14 9:09
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3173
Texas

 Re:

When Christians stop celebrating Christ at Christmas, what kind of message does this send to the lost? I guess the nay sayers could never imagine Christmas maybe bringing in some lost sheep, but then some Christians, don't know what the Lord really means when he say's "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD". Maybe we should have a thread on the goodness of Christmas, and how it's effected your life.

I can remember as a lost child, how every Christmas or Christmas season I personally thought more about the Lord, and especially when I was invited to someone's church and watched a Christmas play, and how I teared up just watching the play. Yes God used the Christmas season in my life to help me want to get to know this God more, it was part of his long process to bring me to his son Jesus Christ.


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2016/12/14 9:10Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1968
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

I do not believe that scripture condemns men having traditions. Scripture only condemns the traditions of man when they make the word of God of none effect (they negate, oppose, and void the word of God). I recall the argument among the elders of the early church about what advice should be given to the Gentile believers.

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

What I notice is that we are saved by the grace of God and that I know that I am born again by the Spirit that bears witness in my own heart and that anoints me for ministry. I am not saved by celebrating or not celebrating Christmas.

Christmas as a tradition is a mishmash of all sorts of traditions, celebrations, etc. that are thrown into one big pot and stirred beyond recognition. But the season does give me reason to celebrate the fact of the incarnation of my savior, and an opportunity to share this with others.

I am quite strongly of the belief that we must prayerfully consider God's will for our lives, seek His word and His will in all things, and be obedient. If I as His servant were to be convicted by the Holy Spirit that I were not to celebrate Christmas, I should neither judge another man's servant, nor would I wish to be judged. Neither will I judge one way or the other.

There really is a truth to the motto, In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, and in all things charity.


_________________
Travis

 2016/12/14 10:08Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5201
NC, USA

 Re:

Sandra- loved your post. Thanks.


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Todd

 2016/12/14 11:13Profile









 Re:

Dfella/David wrote:

"I just take whatever opportunity the Lord provides to lift up the name of Jesus and trust me it works."

Good word.

 2016/12/14 12:32
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1141
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: ginnyrose

Sister Sandra,

I've missed your presence here recently but this post more than makes up for it!
It is a blessing to me and the sincerity and wisdom in it are priceless~

Merry Christmas dear sister:)


_________________
Fletcher

 2016/12/14 21:06Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4488


 Re:

I've enjoyed reading many of the comments here. I think that this has become something of a tradition each December.

Speaking of: I spoke with someone a few years ago who despised Christians who celebrate Christmas. I asked him, "When is your birthday?" He replied, "March 18th." I reminded him that "March" is named in honor of the Roman god of war ("Mars").

When it comes to Christmas, I am thankful that society is forced to consider the association with the holiday with Christ.

Yes, it has been greatly secularized over that last century. Yes, it has certain traditions that are undoubtedly pagan. Yet, the holiday is supposed to focus about the arrival of the King of Kings upon this earthly sod -- born in a stable rather than a palace -- and who would one day allow himself to be executed by the people of this world.

With that in mind, here is one of my favorite "Christmas" songs...

This Little Child
by SCOTT WESLEY BROWN

Verse 1

Who would have thought that long ago
So very far away
A little child would be born
And in a manager lay?

And who would have thought this little child
was born the King of Kings
The Son of just a carpenter
For whom the angels sing?

And who would have thought that as He grew
and with other children played
This child with whom they laughed and sang
Would die for them some day?

And who would have thought this little child
Would make a blind man see,
feed the hungry, make rich the poor
And set the sinner free?

Oh who would have thought this little child
Was who the prophets said
would take away the sins of man
And rise up from the dead?

Chorus

Oh I believe!
And I will always sing,
“This little child is the King!”

Oh, I believe!
And I will always sing,
“This little child...He is...
...the King of Kings!”

Verse 2

Many years have come and gone
Yet this world remains the same.
Empires have been built and fallen
Only time has made a change.

Nation against Nation.
Brother against brother
Men so filled with hatred
Killing one another!

And over half the world is starving
While a banner of decency is torn.
Debating over disarmament
Killing children before they’re born!

And fools who march to win the right
To justify their sin.
Oh every nation that has fallen
Has fallen from within!

Yet in the midst of this darkness
There is a hope, a light that burns.
This little child - the King of Kings
Some day will return!

Repeat Chorus

Verse 3

Who would have thought this little child
is who the prophets said
Will return to judge this world
The living and the dead?

Oh, can’t you see that long ago,
So very far away,
This little child, our only hope,
was born a King that day!?

http://tinyurl.com/thislittlechild


_________________
Christopher

 2016/12/15 0:05Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7429
Mississippi

 Re:

Thank-you for your kind words, Fletcher.

I stayed away from the forum because I was afraid I was talking too much. I love the topics discussed here and it is very hard for me to not chime in when it is something I strongly believe in. And...being a mother, grandmother plus having acquired a substantial number of birthdays means my energy levels are slowing. I stay busy, occupied doing creative work with my sewing machines and helping my husband. And....caring for an aged parent who refuses to listen to common sense takes its toll on any mental energy you have.

One thing certain, SI beats FB by a long shot!

God bless and have a blessed Christmas now and forever more.

Sandra


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2016/12/15 9:46Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1968
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Scott Wesley Brown...Wow, now there is a name I have not heard in about 25 years. Grew up listening to him on christian radio here in Joplin.


_________________
Travis

 2016/12/15 14:15Profile





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