Johannesburg, South Africa
| Re: |
A great example from Acts 13 verse 1 to 3 :"1 Now in
the church at Antioch there were prophets
and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius
of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought
up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. 2 While they
were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy
Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul
for the work to which I have called them.” 3 So after
they had fasted and prayed, they placed their
hands on them and sent them off."
How did the Holy Spirit say? Audibly? I think not, but rather through one or two or all the prophets present.
| 2016/12/15 9:42||Profile|
| Re: His infallible Word |
More from Spurgeon,
“Thus Says the Lord” Ezekiel 11:5
“Thus says the Lord” is the only authority in God’s Church.
The faintest whisper of Jehovah's voice should fill us with
solemn awe, and command the deepest obedience of our souls.
Brethren, how careful should we be that we do not set up in
God’s church anything in opposition to his Word, that we do
not permit the teachings of a creature to usurp the honor due
to the Lord alone.
“Thus says antiquity.”
“Thus says authority.”
“Thus says learning.”
“Thus says experience.”
-these are but idol-gods which defile the church of God!
Be it yours and mine as bold warriors to dash them in pieces
without mercy, seeing that they usurp the place of the Word of God.
“Thus says the Lord,” -this is the motto of our standard;
the war-cry of our spiritual conflict; the sword with which
we hope yet to smite through the loins of the mighty who
rise up against God’s truth.
“Thus says the Lord God.” This is the trowel, and this the
hammer of God’s builders; this the trumpet of his watchmen
and the sword of his warriors.
Woe to the man who comes in any other name!
If we, or an angel from heaven, shall preach unto you anything but a “Thus says the Lord,” no matter what our character or standing, give no heed to us, but cleave unto the truth as it is in Jesus.
To the law and to the testimony, if we speak not according
to this word, it is because there is no light in us.
That test which we demand to be exercised upon others we
cheerfully consent to be exercised upon ourselves, praying
that we may have grace to forsake our errors as we would
have other men forsake theirs.
We will listen to the opinions of great men with the respect
which they deserve as men, but having so done, we deny that
we have anything to do with these men as authorities in the
Church of God, for there nothing has any authority, but
“Thus says the Lord of hosts.”Yes, if you shall bring us the concurrent consent of all tradition- if you shall quote precedents venerable with fifteen, sixteen, or
seventeen centuries of antiquity, we burn the whole as so much
worthless lumber, unless you put your finger upon the passage
of Holy Writ which warrants the matter to be of God.
To the true Church of God the only question is this, is there
“Thus says the Lord” for it? And if divine authority be not
forthcoming, faithful men thrust forth the intruder as the cunning craftiness of men.
Let us use much of Scripture, much of the pure silver
of sacred revelation, and no human alloy.
“What is the chaff to the wheat, says the Lord?”
Many sorrows shall be to those who dare to dash themselves
against the thick bosses of Jehovah's buckler by opposing his
“Thus says the Lord.” Upon whomsoever this stone shall fall
it shall grind him to powder, and whosoever shall fall upon it shall be broken to his own lasting damage.
O! my brethren, I would that we trembled and stood more in awe
of God’s Word. I fear that many treat the things of God as
though they were merely matters of opinion, but remember that
opinion cannot govern in God’s house.
God’s Word, not man’s opinion, claims your allegiance.
O for a stern integrity that will hold the Word and will never
depart from it, come what may.
Note - Because I quote Spurgeon, does not mean that I am making him an idol. Fact is, either he is correct or you are.
Something we'd all agree on is, the Bible is correct!
The matter is, how are we applying Scripture to the topic at hand.
The other thread, started by awakened, has much to do with this topic. Those lumped into the category of his thread are for the most part, those of this ilk, and not true believers.
As Greg said, it's offensive to make such a broad claim. And worse, it's offensive to God, to speak of those whom he loves in such derogatory terms.
| 2016/12/15 10:12||Profile|
| 2016/12/15 10:35|
| Re: deleted post |
Since you deleted the post, I have canceled mine.
Remember, only once did a donkey speak to a prophet...
and only once did God tell a prophet to marry a prostitute.
| 2016/12/15 10:49||Profile|
| Re: |
God can and has given prophesy that is encouraging someone about their future. If that person is a part of the Church, then the Church has been edified.
Not for the sake of arguments but for the sake to stand for the truth and true New Covenant Prophesy, here is my take on your post. Even if I agree that a prophet predicting the future of a person in a church [like he will get a lottery or will get a job] and if the Church gets edified through this, still it does not fit the bill for New Covenant Prophesy.
1 Cor 14:24:-24But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”
How will an unbeliever who hears this prediction of Job will get convicted of his sins? Will secrets of his hearts be exposed by such prediction? Will he fall on his face and confess that God is in their midst?
There are so many scriptures about Prophesy that such prediction of physical blessings will not satisfy.
Brother, it sounds like you are opposing a portion of the gift of prophesy because of a tv personality (preacher) and not because God said it can't be done.
That is something I am very sure I do not do. I am in fact against people who oppose genuine gifts because of fake gifts manifested in Christendom today. I have posted clear scripture to prove my point that the purpose of New Covenant Prophesy is to encourage, Convict and edify the Church in spiritual terms. Not the Physical terms.
| 2016/12/15 11:25||Profile|
| New Covenant vs Old Covenant Prophesy|
I have posted many scriptures like 1 Cor 14:24-25 to explain how the prediction of physical blessings is not New Covenant Prophesy. It is very important for us to distinguish what is new and old covenant prophesy.
Many here quote book of acts to show that even predicting famine by Agabus is in NT. But book of acts also has incidents of Paul circumcising Timothy, do we follow it? Do we not go by Epistles in that case where the same Paul says circumcision is unwanted for Christians? Acts is just a history book. If any prophesy given in the book of acts does not fit the definition and purpose of prophesy given in Epistles then we should ignore them. Just like how we ignore Paul circumcising Timothy.
If we do not differentiate NC Prophesy and keep believing that predicting the future of a person is a prophesy then we will get deceived by all TV preachers like how most in Christendom are deceived. Also we will start looking for such fake manifestation of spirit even in the Churches and ignore the real manifestation of prophesy in which the spirit is striving to convict of personal sins and deception of Satan in us (if we are part of a local body). What we seek is what we get. If we keep searching for Old Covenant prophesy then that is what we will get and deceived.
Why is prosperity preaching very evident in most of the churches today? Because that is what people seek. They do not seek the real word of God. Hence God lead them to ear tickling pastors. Same will happen to us if we ignore the body of believers (Local Church) and keep searching for fake prediction of future events by fake prophets.
| 2016/12/15 11:38||Profile|
| Re: New Covenant vs Old Covenant Prophesy|
[Acts is just a history book. If any prophesy given in the book of acts does not fit the definition and purpose of prophesy given in Epistles then we should ignore them. Just like how we ignore Paul circumcising Timothy.]
That is flawed logic, mildly said. Acts is scripture and does not contradict the rest of scripture and it is a history book, too.
[If we do not differentiate NC Prophesy and keep believing that predicting the future of a person is a prophesy then we will get deceived by all TV preachers like how most in Christendom are deceived. Also we will start looking for such fake manifestation of spirit even in the Churches and ignore the real manifestation of prophesy in which the spirit is striving to convict of personal sins and deception of Satan in us (if we are part of a local body). What we seek is what we get. If we keep searching for Old Covenant prophesy then that is what we will get and deceived.]
I do not care how TV preachers distort the true gift of prophesy. Prophesy is not primary about predicting the future, but about edifying the body of Christ. It can include prediction of future events, but that is not the main purpose.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
The Spirit of truth was given after Pentecost, so prophesy including prediction of future things is given for the NT church. That does not mean that we reduce the Spirit to an oracle or christian substitute for palm reading.
The Gospels and Acts are full of predictions by the Holy Spirit and men acted upon it. The story of the birth of Jesus would not have been possible without the Holy Spirit revealing future events.
| 2016/12/15 12:12||Profile|
| Re: New Covenant vs Old Covenant Prophesy|
I am not a cessationist , I find not one word in the Bible speaking of it.
But in pondering what Sree is saying and reliezing he also is not a cessationist :
And being the simple fact that anyone whom has cared to place a date to anything has been proven wrong (As far as I know)
I have pondered about what generation these verse's apply :
Zec : 13
1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
| 2016/12/15 12:25||Profile|
| Re: |
So has the Spirit stopped operating in the prophetic gufts? Let me take it a step further. Has God stopped giving dreams and visions? If you say He has then what is your scripture proof? Also how do you account for Muslims whk come to faith in Jesus Christ through dreams and visions. Many of them prepared and do lay down their life for the Lord Jesus Christ.
In other words those of you who hold to cessationism. Can you defend your view from the scriptures?
| 2016/12/15 12:25|
| Re: |
Quote: "I have pondered about what generation these verse's apply :
Zec : 13"
Proudpapa, The text tells us when this applies. Verse 1 says "In that day".
So what is 'that day'? Clearly it must be the same 'that day' being spoken of in ch.12. According to ch 12 This is a day when Jerusalem will become a point of judgement for all the nations who will surround it at that time (vs. 2 to 9). God will pour out a spirit of grace and supplication on the house of David (Judah) so they will recognise Jesus as their Messiah and theee will be great grief and mourning over their sin (vs. 10 to 14).
As these events have not ever happened yet, it is clear that this is talking of future events and will be at the return of Christ to set up His kingdom on earth as in line with other related biblical prophesies .
Of couse if one is amillenial in theology they will have explain away these events.
| 2016/12/15 13:06||Profile|