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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : What happened to the prophetic gifts

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narrowpath
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Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 830
Germany NRW

 What happened to the prophetic gifts



Talking about John Wimber, it seems to me that we got silent about the prophetic gifts since the turn of the century. I have hardly seen them in operation in recent years - not the excesses, but real utterance in tongues, interpretation and prophecy.

Paul stated
1. Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

I am afraid that we have thrown the baby out with the bathwater and dare not to make room for these gifts in fear to end up in deception. There is a right application for these, and they have a place in the church. These signs follow the believers and I am afraid we are missing out on something vital God has given to the church. Satan has a two-fold purpose: He furthers the excesses and silences the real utterances.

Operation of the gifts needs responsible and discerning leadership. The use of the gifts has to be taught. There will be errors in the process but they can be corrected.

I see very little emphasis nowadays in teaching on this subject. I afraid if we do not revive these gifts, following generations will have go through the same learning process and have to repeat mistakes of past generations.

The gifts are given for the body of Christ who is the head.
Church programs and pastors who assume the sole authority hinder their operation. Believers who are not filled with the spirit will not be able to exercise nor discern them. Believers who allow sin in their live can be usurped by Satan to produce the counterfeit. Lukewarm Christian will not desire the gifts. Many streams in evangelical Christianity condemn them outright and attribute their operation to demonic forces.

Why is there such a vehement opposition against them? Why is the devil so keen to distort or suppress them? I think it is because they are vital to the body of Christ. I acknowledge the are not as vital as the cross or holiness or faith, but we cannot bury them without suffering loss.

 2016/12/12 16:57Profile
AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 2691
Louisiana

 Re: What happened to the prophetic gifts

"I am afraid that we have thrown the baby out with the bathwater and dare not to make room for these gifts in fear to end up in deception. There is a right application for these, and they have a place in the church. These signs follow the believers and I am afraid we are missing out on something vital God has given to the church. Satan has a two-fold purpose: He furthers the excesses and silences the real utterances."


Brother,

I agree with you that the gifts of the Spirit are not being manifested as much as they once were in churches that believe in the gifts such as AOG churches. As you have said, the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater. Any pastor that teaches on the gifts of the Spirit and allows them to operate in his church knows that it is not going to be smooth sailing. There will be mistakes made, but no one should be hit over the head with a bible for stepping out in faith. The pastor should gently instruct and correct those that have missed it in this area.

When you read Paul’s epistle to the Corinthians, you see the Apostle commended the Church at Corinth for not coming behind in any gift. Then in Chapter 12 Paul lists the gifts of the Spirit, the purpose for them, and how they are to be exercised. The Corinthians had a problem especially in the area of tongues, and the Apostle set things in order. He never discouraged the use of tongues in the Church, but he taught that if someone is moving in this gift, he should also have the gift of interpretation or at least someone in the church should interpret.

In 1 Corinthians 13, Paul exhorts the Church on the love of God. All of the gifts should be operated with a desire to glorify Jesus, build up the Church, and should be done in the love of God. The gifts are given to each member as God chooses to build up and edify the Body of Christ.

Any pastor or leader that teaches on the gifts should also make sure that the people have a thorough knowledge of the fruit of the Spirit. The misuse of the gifts is a result of there being no corresponding fruit. If I am walking in the love of God toward the Body of Christ, I will not use the gifts in a selfish manner, but my desire will be to see the Church grow and mature into the full knowledge of Christ.

Prophesy is a precious gift and it is not for a select few, but anyone that has been baptized in the Holy Spirit can be used by God to give a prophetic utterance. The gift of prophesy was never meant to replace the indwelling Holy Spirit, who has been given to us to lead us and guide us into all truth.


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Mike

 2016/12/12 18:07Profile
CalvaryCom
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Joined: 2007/9/29
Posts: 70
greater NYC area

 Re:

As for genuine tongues and interpretation and genuine prophecy I have seen these in the ministry of B. H. Clendennen and have read about them in that of Smith Wigglesworth.

Anyone who knows his Bible inside out who is governed by the Word of God and filled with the Spirit will immediately recognize and be able to affirm or repudiate what is allegedly prophetic. If it is foretelling (as in Agabus prophesying about dearth coming in the days of Claudius Caesar) then it will be validated or disqualified in its own time.

Most genuine prophecy is an exhortation, rebuke, reproof, or encouragement from the heart of God to a particular gathering of believers at a particular moment of time. Since every life situation possible for humanity has already been addressed in the Scriptures, we have God's counsel for that critical moment readily available....to the one who knows His Word fluently and is open to the Holy Spirit to give utterance at the necessary moment to convey that truth to others. In short, the prophecy will line up with Scriptures that we already know and can say "amen" to.

"...For the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy." Revelation 19:10

"Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out." Proverbs 20:5

"A man hath joy by the answer of his mouth, and a word spoken in due season, how good is it!" Proverbs 15:23

"A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver." Proverbs 25:11

Finally, God is not a weirdo! He is not strange. He is of the highest and noblest character. His ways are perfect. If we are born again followers of Jesus Christ then we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. A strange spirit will utter perverse things. We who are His sheep should immediately recognize strange fire when we encounter it. If you know His Word, then you know His heart. Read the Book, then listen to the Author speak! The counsel is one and the same, but even sweeter to hear in person. There is no contradiction in prophecy and the revealed will of God in the Bible. He is not the author of confusion, but of peace.

Agape in Christ,

Alec




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Alec Stevens

 2016/12/12 19:14Profile
StirItUp
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Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 653
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

All three posts excellent!

May all who read ask the Lord to use them in edifying the body of Christ and stir up the gift that is in them....or ask the Holy Spirit to begin to manifest His gifts in and through them.

Blessings,


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William

 2016/12/12 23:05Profile
bearmaster
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Joined: 2011/7/12
Posts: 2129


 Re:

///What happened to the prophetic gifts?///

The Holy Spirit stopped operating in the prophetic gifts when the doctrine of cessationism took over the American Evangelical Church.

My simple answer to the above question.

-bro blaine-


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Brother Blaine

 2016/12/13 14:57Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1382


 Re:

I believe God has blessed me with the Gift of Prophesy. I exercise this gift whenever I get a chance in my church. But we have to understand the difference between Old Covenant and New Covenant Prophesy. Old Covenant Prophesy is to predict the attack of enemy on Israel and to warn the nation of Israel from the enemies. Like how Jeremeiah warned them about the attack of Babylonians.

Now New Covenant prophesy is for the Church, to warn the church on the spiritual attack of Satan. It is not same as predicting the future like how the OT prophets did.

1 Cor 14:31-For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.

Here it is clear that Prophesy is to encourage and instruct the Church.

Verse 24:- But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

So Prophesy should expose the hidden sins in the listener. He will fall down and confess that 'God is really in their midst'.

The problem is many who say the prophesy today in Church and in TV, they do OT prophesy. Predicting who will get Job, who will get blessing etc will not cause one to be convicted of sin, will it? All these are lies done in the name of Prophesy.

That is why it is very important for each one of us to be part of a Local body of believers. Only in Local Body we can hear a prophetic word that is apt to the spiritual situation of ours. Listening messages in SI etc, cannot replace that.

So before we question, why we do not have prophetic gifts today, let us question whether we are part of a local body that is meeting based on Biblical ground. If that is not there then where will prophesy come from? It is like someone living in Elisha's time outside Israel but asking where are all the prophets? One has to come to be part of God's people to hear a prophet.


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Sreeram

 2016/12/13 15:25Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2738


 Re: What happened to the prophetic gifts

My opinion thus far according to my research of Church History as well as my understanding of Scripture : Is that as soon as we depart from the Biblical account. Men started ruling over other men, hierarchical system replaced the Biblical paradigm of the Body.
Instead of leadership that directed each Body part to His Head and discovering each individuals role as a vital functioning Body part.
Men with Great Orator skills rose up and begain imposing there own convictions onto other men:

What should have been non issues such as how one should ware facial hair etc. begain being imposed on peoples conscience making it very difficult for them to hear and discern what was from the Lord and what had been imposed on them from other mens conscience.

What I believe as being a misunderstanding of the first part of 1 Cor 11 prevented men from understanding what was happening to them.
They read that portion being taught that the headship order was to be symbolized and demonstrated by outward apparel and hair length.
And (My opinion is)they never trusted the Lord in the reading of that portion for themselves and never relized that it is speaking directly against bringing ones conscience under hierarchical rule.

And never coming to the understanding that the allegorical portion is not encouraging ceremonial adherence.
but simply pointing out that Gods Sovereign design of the Headship order can be seen even in nature. hence : (Doth not even nature itself teach you)
For a man to allow other men to dictate his conscience is as unnatural and feminist as a man with long hair.

And so I believe our full capabilities and purpose in the Body is
being suppressed by an unbiblical structural paradigm.

add : and lack of faith
edit : clarity

add : (My opinion is) change "influence" to "dictate"

 2016/12/13 15:26Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 830
Germany NRW

 Re:

Sree made a very valid point. You need a functioning body of believers that are under the headship of Christ and exercise the government offices: Elders and deacons - mark the plural -and not one top man and his staff a level below. Exercise of gift needs to be encouraged and corrected at times.

Often it was deep compassion and dire need that facilitated the operation of the gifts. If there are no doctors to go to you and someone is going to die you may be tempted to abandon your cessationist theology.
Stephen's gift of miracles was released while working as a deacon among desperate widows that expected their daily provisions.

When Jesus and the apostles evangelized, the gifts accompanied their message. John Wimber brought this truth back to the mainstream evangelical churches but we quickly dismissed it because of the excesses. What a sad story.

The gifts were always there and I believed they never really ceased throughout church history.

 2016/12/13 16:03Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1382


 Re:

Quote:

Often it was deep compassion and dire need that facilitated the operation of the gifts. If there are no doctors to go to you and someone is going to die you may be tempted to abandon your cessationist theology.
Stephen's gift of miracles was released while working as a deacon among desperate widows that expected their daily provisions.




Very true.
Quote:

When Jesus and the apostles evangelized, the gifts accompanied their message.



Even these days I hear reports of miracles done in remote villages in India where people go to spread the gospel. These uneducated people who are deeply rooted in Hindu faith cannot come out unless a sign is performed in their midst. Any number of intellectual reasoning will not work there.


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Sreeram

 2016/12/13 16:52Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 1967


 There is a difference between giftings and callings

Act 11:28
And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

Act 21:10
And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.
Act 21:11
And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.


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D.Miller

 2016/12/13 20:01Profile





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