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Discussion Forum : General Topics : John Wimber

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wijnand
Member



Joined: 2006/3/31
Posts: 110


 John Wimber

I have a simple question. What do you guys think about John Wimber?

I have been part of the 'hypercharismatic' movement and saw many wrong things and heard a lot of wrong things.
But when I listen to John Wimber (who - people say - belong to that movement) I hear something differt it seems. But I don't see him on SermonIndex, is that for a reason?

I have not enough information, haven't listened enough to know really deeply about him and his message. So do you have thoughts on that? :-)


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Wijnand de Ridder

 2016/12/12 7:13Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re: John Wimber

Keep reading about him. Plenty of accurate information exists online. Also, ask God as you think about Wimber, "Lord, what do You want me to think of this? What does Your word say that I need to know and consider here?" Don't detach your heart and walk in the Spirit from the analysis, but don't trust your heart to rightly judge without the Spirit and word as you mull it over. If you cannot reach a conclusion with biblical reasoning, don't reach that conclusion. If you can't reach a conclusion, perhaps avoiding the man and his materials until you can and do reach a Bible based and prayerfully submitted conclusion is a good idea. If you do reach a conclusion. I ask -- for your own sake and others -- that you humbly keep that conclusion in your own heart and not to announce it until it is proven over time and approved in your own heart by submission to your brethren in assembled fellowship where your own biases and ways of processing information can be shaped by people who meet in loving obedience to Jesus.


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Tim

 2016/12/12 8:23Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3448
Louisiana

 Re: John Wimber



Having been a part of this forum for a number of years, I can assure you that you will not find any teachings by John Wimber. I believe that the Lord used John Wimber to teach the Body of Christ that signs and wonders in modern times are not some strange phenomena, but were scriptural and should accompany the preaching of the Word. “And they went forth, and preached every where. The Lord working with them, and confirming the Word with signs following.” (Mark 16:20).

I have probably opened up a can of worms by even replying to the initial post, and I expect the heresy hunters to be out in full force with a number of names of ministers that were associated with John Wimber. It has been an emphasis on Sermon Index that Charismatics put too much emphasis on the gifts of the Spirit, signs and wonders. While this may be true in many cases, I have found that on Sermon Index there is not enough emphasis on the gifts of the Spirit, the prophetic, and signs and wonders. Persecution is highlighted in many of the third world countries, but along with the persecution the Word of God is being preached and there are many healings, deliverances, and signs and wonders that are taking place. We ought to be discussing the persecution, but we should not try to cover up the miraculous signs and wonders that accompany the preaching of the Word.


John Richard Wimber was born on February 25, 1934 in Peoria, Illinois and was raised in a non-Christian home. He loved music and by his early twenties, he was involved in the music industry. He was best known for helping to form the group “The Righteous Brothers” where he played keyboards. In 1963 his life took a dramatic turn after he came to Christ through a Quaker bible study group, led by Gunner Payne. He felt that God was calling him out of the music industry, so he left it behind to move into what Christ had for him. He became highly evangelistic and led hundreds of people to Christ. He became a leader in the Yorba Linda Friends Church, and eventually was hired to be on staff in 1971.

In 1974 Wimber was offered a job by Peter Wagner to b the Founding Director of the Department of Church Growth at the Fuller Institute of Evangelism and Church Growth. Wimber was traveling all over the world teaching on church growth. In 1976 Carol Wimber had a dream of standing preaching to a large crowd a seven-point sermon on the gifts of the Spirit. Carol began to develop an insatiable hunger for God. She was reading the Word and felt convicted that there was much more that God wanted for them Carol began to seek God, weeping, repenting, crying out for more of God's presence. God led her to a place of repentance and seeking forgiveness from those she had hurt. Also in 1976 a small group of people were meeting seeking more of God, and they began to experience the presence of the Holy Spirit. God also spoke to Carol about the importance of intimate worship. Wimber struggled with all of this initially, but in 1977 felt that they were to begin a church of their own from that small group. They left the Friends church with their blessing.

Due to Calvary Chapel's experience with the Holy Spirit in the Jesus Movement, John became connected with Calvary Chapel and established his church as Calvary Chapel of Yorba Linda in May 1977. God began to speak to Wimber about healing the sick, and he began a church series on the subject. In March 1978, after ten months of preaching and praying without anyone healed, Wimber saw his first healing. The church grew rapidly and began to experience a greater outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Unexpectedly God began to train Wimber, and the church, in deliverance. This was a point of theological difference with Cavalry Chapel and they are asked to leave the denomination, but were recommended to associate with the Vineyard Church, another group in the area that was moving in similar directions. In 1982 Wimber's church became a Vineyard. He became the head of the Vineyard churches in 1982 as well.

In the meantime Wimber was still teaching at the Fuller Theological Seminary. He began to teach MC510 a course called "Signs and Wonders and Church Growth". It began in 1981 as a lecture and was taught as a full course between 1982 and 1985. This was a "hands on class" which became the most popular, and the most controversial, at the school. In 1984 Wimber took the class "on the road". Wimber began to train people all over the world about praying for the sick and "doing the works of ministry". His focus was on every-member ministry within the body. Healing and miracles occurred in these meetings.

In 1986, Wimber added teaching on "inner-healing" to his training schedule. Then in 1989 he came into relationship with Mike Bickle of the Kansa City Fellowship. The focus of the Vineyard shifted sharply to the Prophetic for the next two years. Wimber traveled with Mike Bickle, Paul Cain, John Paul Jackson and Bob Jones teaching on the role of the prophetic in the church today. In 1991 Wimber began to feel called back to the roots of the Vineyard and reemphasized the equipping for ministry. In 1993, a Vineyard church in Toronto experienced an outpouring of the Holy Spirit referred to as the "Toronto Blessing" or the "Father's Blessing", which drew people from all over the world. Although initially supportive, Wimber did not agree with everything being taught in Toronto and eventually asked them to leave the association, which they did in 1995.

Wimber's final two years were ones of deep struggle. He had fought health problems and his son was dying of a brain tumor. The Vineyard Movement was wrestling with focus. In 1997 the leadership of the Vineyard was handed over to Todd Hunter, who had been with Wimber since the beginning. Wimber fell, and hit his head, causing a massive brain injury and he died on November 17, 1997.







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Mike

 2016/12/12 8:35Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5343
NC, USA

 Re:

One of the most helpful Christian books I have read- "Empowered Evangelicals" was written by two Vineyard Pastors. I have a very dear friend who had to leave a Vineyard church when he moved away- he loved it because he said it was so balanced- a conservative charismatic church that believed and operated in the gifts of the HS but wasn't wacko like so many charismatic fellowships. At least that was his experience at that Vineyard church.


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Todd

 2016/12/12 9:15Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1053
Germany NRW

 Re: John Wimber


It is easy to attack John Wimber and hold him to account for many of the charismatic excesses in his movement and beyond. I dare not to do so.

I believe he was a humble servant of Christ who recovered what was lost to vast parts of the church for centuries. He was a man of the word and of prayer. He is best remembered for his disarming humor, compassionate heart and the enormous influence he had on other leaders. I heard him preaching one of his last sermons back in 1997. We still sing some of his songs today and I read some of his books.

As the charismatic and prophetic movement got out of hand, I think he should have put his foot down. He could have had exercised his God-given authority and stopped and rebuked some of those charlatans.

By the way what happened to true signs and wonders and prophesy in the 21st century church in the west? I see very little of them nowadays.




 2016/12/12 13:15Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3448
Louisiana

 Re:

"As the charismatic and prophetic movement got out of hand, I think he should have put his foot down. He could have had exercised his God-given authority and stopped and rebuked some of those charlatans."

Brother,

John Wimber did put his foot down on what is known as the Toronto Blessing that took place at a Vineyard Church. He cut them off from being a part of the Vineyard churches. I am not denying in the least bit that there were many things going on at this time that were a reproach, and those errors and deception that has railroaded the true move of the Spirit needed to be addressed. Many true moves of the Spirit have been stopped by either men trying to control the movement or by leaders not bringing correction to excesses and error.


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Mike

 2016/12/12 14:07Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

It begs the question of how much error is too much, right? It is why close small fellowship is so vital. We can pass judgments and be correct, or incorrect. But, seems to me that the Spirit of our Shepherd and Pastor in Chief is present when we assemble as His church. Then we can rightly judge as we can in no other setting.

God is faithful to teach us and lead us to all truth. Attempting to figure it all out in abstract or out of the context of body life leaves us wanting.


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Tim

 2016/12/12 21:30Profile
Jeremy221
Member



Joined: 2009/11/7
Posts: 1442


 Re:

Mike, you mention that Wimber prayed and taught about healing for 10 months before seeing it in his church. This sounds a lot like man Leonard Ravenhill refers to many times in his sermons. Would you say he is who Ravenhill was talking about?

 2016/12/12 22:27Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3448
Louisiana

 Re:

Brother Jeremy,

It is very likely that Leonard Ravenhill was referring to John Wimber, but I don’t know that for certain. The testimony of John Wimber of having prayed for the sick for 10 months without witnessing a single healing only to have the flood gates of healing opened up is a lesson that we can all benefit from. We should never judge things by our experience but only by the infallible Word of God that endures forever. True faith is not moved by what it sees or experiences, but true faith will stand on the Word of God. Circumstances change, feelings change, but God has never changed his mind concerning the truth that is in His Word. It is a fact that in churches where healing is taught, you will find that there are frequent healings that take place. “Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.” In churches where healing is not taught, people are at the mercy of the practicing physicians, and because of unbelief, God is limited as to what He will do in the area of healing in those places.


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Mike

 2016/12/13 7:58Profile
Renee_is_His
Member



Joined: 2016/3/9
Posts: 73
Arkansas

 Re:

Yes brother Mike, I agree wholeheartedly that this waiting on the Lord in prayer and faith is one of the things that is sorely lacking these days. I may never see someone healed or experience it myself, but I still believe Jesus is the Healer. I may never see the dead raised or demons cast out, but I still believe that Jesus is "the Resurrection and the Life", and that He is a Deliverer. To continually pray in faith for something that has already been promised in the Word of God takes perseverance and courage, and we will receive these when we are willing to wait on the Lord. When we don't see those quick results, unless we are grounded in the Word, we tend to doubt God and fall into unbelief. It is good to hear about these modern-day testimonies of signs and wonders that prove the Word of God is true, and He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.


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Renee

 2016/12/13 11:20Profile





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