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rbanks
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Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 But if any man seem to be contentious...

1 Corinthians 11:16 (KJV)
16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

if any man seem to be contentious—The Corinthians were apparently fond of arguing, each claiming to have the last word or the ultimate answer (8:1).

we—the apostles. have no such custom—as that of women praying uncovered. neither the churches of God—Paul closed his argument by appealing to the universal custom of the churches.

While custom does not determine correct doctrine (since doctrine has been authoritatively revealed in Scripture), custom is a helpful guide in practical questions of what is proper or appropriate.

This phrase, then, supports the conclusion that the specific instructions regarding veils, etc., depend on cultural expectations and would not always apply. Paul's teaching, however, is based on underlying principles that should always be observed.

While I do believe there are sincere christians on both sides of the issue at hand who must follow their own conscience on how they are convinced that they understand it.

I do not believe that we should make it an issue at the expense of destroying Christian unity of the brethren in the body of Christ.

Romans 14:4-5
4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Blessings to everyone!

 2016/12/6 19:21Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3394
East TN (for now)

 Re: But if any man seem to be contentious...


But just so you know, some use the "one" version that doesn't say or mean that!! Here's the BibleHub of every version that supports KJV...
http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/11-16.htm


But any way, I agree with that but also that that scripture can include anything that man would dictate as a law over anyone and thereby causing an argument (not just head coverings brother), "we have no such custom, neither the churches of God." And leave it there.

But that's just me and I will leave it there!!
God bless,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2016/12/7 7:08Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7469
Mississippi

 Re: But if any man seem to be contentious...

It is totally out of character for any Biblical writer to go to great lengths to teach a principle and application and then end up saying it is not all that important - just let local custom dictate your decision on this issue.

Weird hermeneutics, I say.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2016/12/26 16:33Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: But if any man seem to be contentious...

"we have no such custom, neither the churches of God."v 16

No such custom that men can not : "have long hair" v 14

No such custom that woman have to : "have long hair" v 15

Paul has simply pointed out that the headship order can be observed symbolically in nature through the fact that naturally woman tend to have long hair and men shorter hair .
Which is why Paul starts v 14 : " Doth not even nature itself teach you"

clarity

Add :

Tradition has misread 1 Cor 11, They have read it that Paul was teaching that woman should symbolically mimic the Spiritual headship order by the use of head apparel for woman.

By reading it this way : Pauls entire point has been lost.

And Church history seems to me to have become a record of a divisive hierarchical systems instead of the Biblical unified body paradigm fitly joined together with Christ as the Head, as what we read about in Scripture

Paul was not adding another law to Christianity, he was simply pointing out that nature itself teaches symbolicly the headship order





 2016/12/26 19:12Profile
sermonindex
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

I do see the Apostle Paul appealing to Biblical doctrine and not custom on this:

1 Corinthians 11:2-3New International Version (NIV)

On Covering the Head in Worship
2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God.


The original post makes some wonderful points. This is not an issue that we judge or ever divide over, but because of the appeal to Scriptural doctrine of headship the Apostle gives us the importance of the symbol.


Paul was passing on Biblical New Covenant traditions (symbols) in the church and not just customs that were local to certain believers or a time period.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2016/12/27 8:41Profile
proudpapa
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Posts: 2936


 Re:

"2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you."

Paul does not say : Ordinances as I am fixing to deliver to you.
He says : "as I delivered them to you."
That connects to what he has previously been speaking about through out 1 Cor.

The ordinances that where delivered to the Church and was to be passed down was this :

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Acts 15: 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:


The context leading up to the 11th chapter of 1 Cor. has been Paul addressing some of these ordinances with more detail :

abstain from meats offered to idols 1 Cor 10 : 19 - 33
1 Cor 8 : 1-13

fornication : 1 cor 10:8, 1 cor. 7, 1 cor 6:18, 1 cor 5


clarity

 2016/12/27 13:05Profile
UntoBabes
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Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1032
Oregon

 Re:

Have you ever thought that the word custom may be referring to contentions. In other words, he would be saying: If someone wants to be disputatious or contentious about these teachings, we do not tolerate such practice, or moral habit ( referring to contentions) in the churches of God.
I say that because i grew up to reading the Bible in another language( other than English) and that is how i always understood this verse to mean.


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Fifi

 2016/12/27 14:46Profile









 Re:

I believe Paul is actually saying we do not tolerate those who have a contentious, divisive spirit. This is in keeping with much of his teaching elsewhere on this matter. In other word Paul is saying that anyone who wishes to be contentious and divisive over these aforementioned matters...STOP...we won't tolerate that spirit here.

Unfortunately his plea fell on deaf ears and here we are 2000 years later still arguing and being contentious over head coverings and everything else.

 2016/12/27 15:11
sermonindex
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Quote:
Unfortunately his plea fell on deaf ears and here we are 2000 years later still arguing and being contentious over head coverings and everything else.



Brother,

Unfortunately most biblical commentators that are protestant and also most if not all Churches throughout Church history were then wrong? The majority of believers have practiced a literal interpreation of this scripture which is opposite then what you are saying.

I wonder if in our modern day evangelical church we can be wrong on a few points? I heard a charismatic speaker says he was more anointed in the Apostle Paul and have heard evangelical believers state we have the best Church in the history of the Church. I shuddered when I heard these comments.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2016/12/27 16:32Profile









 Re:

brother Greg,
I am not commenting at all on the practice of head coverings and what percentage of churches or denominations have practiced this in its varying forms over the centuries.

All I am saying is the the CONTENTIOUS arguing over this is still going on 2000 years later. And thats not the only thing either. Christians just love to argue. They will argue over the drop of a hat, over the length of a skirt and the color of their hymnals. They argue over every jot and tittle it seems and when they are done with one thing, up pops another and on and on they drone.

Why would any sinner want to take part in any such religion as this? Amongst other things it is the foul stench of religious trappings and contention that keep many from coming nearer to the gates of the Kingdom of our loving Savior.

 2016/12/27 16:51





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