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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What is happening beneath the headcovering?

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5344
NC, USA

 Re:

Sree-

You mentioned in the submission thread about the ridiculousness of asking about the size of the head covering, how much it should cover, etc.

It is not an insincere or silly question, although I admit there is a rhetorical reason for asking it.

The question is important because it goes to the legalism of the issue. Let's say a woman wants to use a head covering. She might wear a little hat. But she might be judged by other women who would say she should not wear a little hat but rather a scarf or a veil. And those women might be criticized because they cover all their hair but none of their face.

My wife, who went to a catholic elementary school, says that when they went into church the girls were expected to have something on their head. If they did not, they were given a Kleenex to pin to their hair.


_________________
Todd

 2016/11/23 12:07Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1704


 Re:

Quote:
Are you dogmatic about it or does it not bother you?



I am not dogmatic or adamant about it. Which means as Greg said, the head covering will not prevent me from fellowshiping with another sister. Like I said I have sisters in my church who do not cover their head. I really value them and encourage them to pray and prophesy in the Church just like any other sister who covers her head. But if this sister asks me a question about head covering, I will tell her what I believe is right. Does it make me dogmatic or adamant about my belief in head covering? I do not think so.

For example many men of God in the past like John Wesley believed in infant baptism. I do not believe it is right. But if Wesley was alive today, I will take every step to meet with him or visit his church. It will not prevent me from fellowshiping with him. But if I get an opportunity to discuss infant baptism with Wesley then I will tell him straight that he is wrong.


_________________
Sreeram

 2016/11/23 12:53Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1704


 Re:

Quote:

Does Jackie Pullinger use a head covering ?



I certainly do not know whether she covers her head or not. Neither am I interested. A quick search on her pictures reveal that she does not cover her head. But I believe the head covering command in the context of public prayer and prophesying in Church. So I am not sure whether Jackie covers her head in the context of prayer and prophesying. Even if she does not, it will NOT change my opinion about her. The very first time I heard her, the first thought that came to me is, if a women has to prophesy, then this is how it should be.

Now regarding submitting spirit, I am not sure about Jackie. My observation is based on people I have met and fellowshiped with. For example I consider Annie Poonen as having the gentle and submitting spirit that a women is Biblically expected to have. I have fellowshiped with her and experienced the same. Anyone who has talked to her will agree with me on this. I have also witnessed some other sisters having that gentle spirit. They all cover their head in the context of public prayer and prophesying.

I have not seen the vice versa. I am not one who restricts my fellowship boundary to only my Church. I do as much out reach as I can, especially to Christians. I am yet to see a sister who does not cover her head but having a Biblical submitting spirit. I am not saying they are not there. But I have not met one.

The point I am inferring from my observation is very simple, I connect disobedience to this command with feminist movement. I know a Godly speakers in SI who also holds this view. I am not trying to infer anything else from my observation like "all sisters who do not cover their head are evil" etc. If I have such a view then I will honestly admit it. I do NOT have one.


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Sreeram

 2016/11/23 13:10Profile









 Re:

I sure hope you brothers are telling the truth when it comes to this subject because I have met many women who do not cover their heads but have a submissive spirit. I have also met women who cover but who I have observed as NOT having a submissive, gentle and quiet spirit. I have seen traits of them being bossy, busybodies, aloof, elitist, standoffish, unkind, impatient, gossips, full of pride and judgmental of others. If that is what you guys consider as a submissive spirit then its all yours:-) I think what you are really observing in some cases is a pretense of a submissive spirit. Unless you live with these head covering women on a day to day basis there is no way you can really know their hearts. And the same goes for those woman who you judge and say do not have a submissive spirit. It just happens that they do not cover their head. My take on this is that you are superimposing your disappointment in these non-covering women because in your eyes they are disobedient and thus do not measure up. But hey, that's not dogmatic...no not at all (wink).

 2016/11/23 14:15
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

I am friends with some girls that grew up with the head covering, there parents told them that they did not have to wear it if they did not want to, But they continued to wear it as respect to there parents. But the day they got married they took it off , There husbands did not want them to ware it. I believe those girls acted correctly in both of the situations.

 2016/11/23 14:36Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5344
NC, USA

 Re:

I agree PP.


_________________
Todd

 2016/11/23 18:17Profile









 Re:

PP, Todd, yes I agree with that statement too.

I think is wrong and judgmental and legalistic to say that a woman is in disobedience to God for not covering her head. A better way to approach this is for every local fellowship to agree among themselves what their practice should be. If they cannot agree then the elders need to make a ruling and everyone else should submit to the elders in this regard. Then every woman in that fellowship should comply with that local church practice out of a spirit of submission.I believe this spirit of order and submission will please the Lord, not whether or not the women cover their heads. Of course this is my opinion and much more renown men than me would disagree with me on this.

 2016/11/23 18:34
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1704


 Re:

Quote:
There husbands did not want them to ware it. I believe those girls acted correctly in both of the situations.



I do not ask in a way to challenge you. Though it appears that doing what your husband says is wise, it does not sound to me like Godly wisdom. If head covering is a command of God (which many including me believe) then no husband has the power to ask his wife to disobey a command of God. In many areas a wife has to submit to the opinion of husband, like what kind of dress is modest etc, because there is no clear distinction in God's word here. For example how much covering is modest, how much jewel is permitted, they are all grey areas. But when it comes to obedience of God's word, which is a simple and clear command, I believe God has higher authority than husband.

If you believe that head covering is not a clear command and just an optional thing, then what you say appears right. So it all depends on how serious one is about obeying even a simple command of God.

For example in Ananias and Sapphira case, the wife agreed to the lies of the husband which was a lie against the spirit. They did not even lie with their mouth, just pretended as if they submitted the whole money. Both husband and wife died.

Head covering is told as a symbol for angels, not to husband. If it is for angels then where is husband coming here?


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Sreeram

 2016/11/23 18:41Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5344
NC, USA

 Re:

Why do the angels need to see a head covering on a woman?


_________________
Todd

 2016/11/23 19:30Profile









 Re:

Brother Sree,
You never answered my other email brother? If it is a command from God then it is disobedience and therefor blatant sin.

What is the consequences of this sin in your understanding?

And if so many believers do not agree with you and have the Holy Spirit within them, then why does not the Holy Spirit convict them of this blatant sin?

You see brother where you are wrong? This is what always happens when we follow a mans opinion about such a confusing subject rather than allow the Holy Spirit to convict each person as to how they are going to approach this. You said before you disagree with John Wesley and will tell him to his face where he is wrong. Why are you so adamant that your leaders who taught you are right about this matter then? Are they completely infallible but the great John Wesley isn't?

 2016/11/23 19:48





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