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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What is happening beneath the headcovering?

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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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Brother if I might respectfull ask. In light of the context of 1 Corithians 11:1-16. Would you allow a sister to pray or prophesy in the public assembly if she wore the head covering?



dear brother,

Of course sisters would have that freedom as led by the Holy Spirit. I would say in most cases sisters should not share more then brethren, they usually should not be "elders" or be submitted under a brothers authority.

I also respect those denominations or meetings where sisters are silent and do not pray or prophesy, each gathering of believers has a strength and weakness. Obviously the best is to have the entire body active and strong eldership giftings in each local assembly.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2016/11/22 7:08Profile









 Re: Greg

Brother appreciate your answer. I find myself in agreement. I was speaking with a close friend last night. She made the wise observation that these discussions are going to come up when the church in America goes underground. This was why I opened up this thread.

-bbs-

 2016/11/22 7:21
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1709


 Re:

Quote:
But brothers the question. Is the sister allowed to pray or prophesied in the assembly if she wears the head covering? This is a question I'm seeking to address.




I believe that head covering a command that should be followed by all sisters. But like Greg, I am not dogmatic about it. In the fellowship that I attend I have noted certain sisters not covering their head. It does not even bother me. They are answerable to God for what they choose to obey. But if they ask my view, I will tell them to cover the head, even if they get offended and leave the Church. I will never tell anyone to ignore any of the God's command.

Now regarding allowing the sisters to pray and prophesy in Church; I am one of the brothers leading the fellowship and I do encourage sisters to pray and prophesy. Many times I specifically ask any sister to pray for the meeting, so those with burden will pray. But Bible very clearly restricts sisters to teach. I do not teach myself, I only prophesy or share what God's word has done in my life. Teaching is only for those who have authority in Church to teach the word. But all brothers and sisters are free to prophesy according to their proportion of faith.

I find Jackie Pullinger as the best example for women who prophesy without any spirit of teaching. I have heard many of her sermons here on SI. She always speaks what the Lord has done in her life or in the life of people she knows. I really appreciate the way she speaks within her boundaries as a women. I believe that is why God has blessed her ministry so much.


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Sreeram

 2016/11/22 23:35Profile
Sree
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 Re:

It is my personal observation that I have never come across a sister who does not cover her head but having a gentle and meek submitting spirit. I have seen sisters who cover their head but do not have a real gentle submitting spirit but I have not seen the vice versa. I am not saying there is no sister like that. But I am yet to see one.

This observation of mine makes me hold the view that the disobedience in head covering command is closely linked with feminist movement of false equality. We falsely confuse equality with roles and responsibilities. For example in my office I and my manager are equally important for the success of project but our roles and responsibilities are different. I have to seek his permission whenever I need to take a break from work. Just because I am equal in the eyes of company does not mean I do not need to submit to him. Similarly in God's eyes both man and women are equal, but they have different roles and responsibilities. For example man cannot give birth to babies, period, no matter how much he believes in equal rights! So even in church roles and responsibilities matter. So if a women is expected to cover her head then she has to, no matter how much she is equal to a man in the eyes of God.

Again it is just my personal observation, I can change my views the more I see the Christian world.


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Sreeram

 2016/11/22 23:49Profile









 Re:

"It is my personal observation that I have never come across a sister who does not cover her head but having a gentle and meek submitting spirit."

I have never seen an gorilla in the jungles of Africa and yet I have walked those jungles. Not sure what relevance it has if you have not seen a sister who does not cover but still has a meek submitting spirit? It just means that they exist outside of your circle of friends. And besides do you have any idea how insulting that comes across to christian women who do not cover their heads?

"I have seen sisters who cover their head but do not have a real gentle submitting spirit..."

Yes so have I, but again...so what? You seem to be searching for some magical correlation between head covering and a meek and humble spirit? I'm sorry but I do not believe it exists.

"This observation of mine makes me hold the view that the disobedience in head covering..."

So now we have the truth coming out that exposes the hearts of many men who take a hard line on this subject. They believe that women who do not cover their heads are in disobedience to God. If that is the case, is not all disobedience in fact sin? So women who do not cover their head are in sin? If that is the case, what is the consequence of this continual sin? How can they even hope to walk in the light and fellowship with God if they are living in continual sin?

I am not being facetious nor am I seeking an argument, I do however want the brothers who teach these things to explain to all these sinful woman what the ultimate consequences is going to be for their sin? Do they lose their salvation, do they lose their reward? Are they somehow shut out of from the blessings of the Lord? Do they stop growing in maturity or becoming more Christlike?

And if that be the case, is not then the simple solution to all these consequences to simply throw a covering on their heads? And thats it? All the bad consequences cease? These are sincere and genuine questions that I have had for a very long time.

And one more thing. Who comes up with the rules for head coverings? How much of the head or hair should be covered? I have seen woman cover their entire head in mid-eastern fashion and then others just cover the back of their head...barely? Which sister is more holy? Who should decide on the amount of the head being covered? Is it left to their discretion or do the elders set the rules? And when should the head be covered, during the prayer time, during the singing and the preaching? What about during the fellowship afterwards? If not why not? What happens if in a fellowship gathering that is not officiated by the elders that the head is not covered...is that sister in sin? What does she do if she ever should forget her head covering? Would any old covering suffice? A sweater? A newspaper or anything else handy at the time? Another question young people have asked me is would the wearing of a beanie count as covering the head? Again these are sincere and genuine questions that I have.

Thank you for putting up with all my questions.

 2016/11/23 0:53
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
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 Re:

I have been in churches of a certain persuasion where the head covering is a reason to wear a flashy hat to be noticed.

I have also wondered if a young girl wears a "sock hat" does that satisfy the requirement? What about a ball cap?

The verses mention "veiling." Not sure what this means, but when I think of veiling I think of the head and face being covered.

My understanding is that in the Corinthian church the hair style for men was short, and that certain women were keeping their hair short which was a sign of rebellion at that time. Paul wanted them to stop this practice.


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Todd

 2016/11/23 7:27Profile
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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It should not matter the exact way a sister does this, as there is no biblical exacting of it, it is simply an outward action of an inward reality just like water baptism.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2016/11/23 10:11Profile
proudpapa
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 Re:

Sree wrote : ///I find Jackie Pullinger as the best example for women who prophesy without any spirit of teaching. I have heard many of her sermons here on SI. She always speaks what the Lord has done in her life or in the life of people she knows. I really appreciate the way she speaks within her boundaries as a women. I believe that is why God has blessed her ministry so much.///



Sree wrote : ///It is my personal observation that I have never come across a sister who does not cover her head but having a gentle and meek submitting spirit. I have seen sisters who cover their head but do not have a real gentle submitting spirit but I have not seen the vice versa. I am not saying there is no sister like that. But I am yet to see one.///

Does Jackie Pullinger use a head covering ?

 2016/11/23 10:14Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
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 Re:

RE : ///The verses mention "veiling." Not sure what this means, but when I think of veiling I think of the head and face being covered.///

Define what the Head is : "the head of every man is Christ"
"the head of the woman is the man" "the head of Christ is God."

 2016/11/23 10:42Profile
Heydave
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Joined: 2008/4/12
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 Re:

Sree wrote: "I believe that head covering a command that should be followed by all sisters. But like Greg, I am not dogmatic about it. In the fellowship that I attend I have noted certain sisters not covering their head. It does not even bother me. They are answerable to God for what they choose to obey. But if they ask my view, I will tell them to cover the head, even if they get offended and leave the Church. I will never tell anyone to ignore any of the God's command."

Bother Forgetting what one believes about the issue., this paragraph you wrote is full of contradictions. Maybe it is your English, but anyway....

Contradiction 1: "I believe that head covering is a command that should be followed by all sisters"..but I am not dogmatic about it."

Contradiction 2:"...certain sisters not covering their head. It does not even bother me."..."But if they ask my view, I will tell them to cover the head, even if they get offended and leave the Church."

Are you dogmatic about it or does it not bother you?


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Dave

 2016/11/23 10:56Profile





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