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drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 649
Campbell River, B.C.

 warning

I have been a christian for about 3 years(at least I hope I am) and in that time I have backslidden terribly. The Lord has warned me twice to turn from wickedness. He used Ezekiel 18:31-32 to warn me. I pray and read the Bible constantly but never get an answer from the Lord. I feel as if the Lord has cut me off permanently. I will still serve the Lord even if I am going to hell, but hope and pray for his grace. Any input would be greatly appreciated.


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Nigel Holland

 2005/6/6 15:44Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re: warning

Hi Drifter,

Quote:
I have been a christian for about 3 years(at least I hope I am) and in that time I have backslidden terribly. The Lord has warned me twice to turn from wickedness. He used Ezekiel 18:31-32 to warn me. I pray and read the Bible constantly but never get an answer from the Lord. I feel as if the Lord has cut me off permanently. I will still serve the Lord even if I am going to hell, but hope and pray for his grace. Any input would be greatly appreciated.



Can a person come to Christ unless the Father draw them? Does a sinner in of themselves desire to please God? If you serve God ere' many years you will not do it in the 'flesh'. The very fact that you are concerned about your soul is evidence that God has NOT abandoned you. TODAY if you will hear His voice- harden not your heart as in the provocation. God speaks to us through His word. Sometimes God may seem to be silent and it is in those times that we must walk by faith.

In a previous thread there is a reference to Jim Cymbala's message on "Calling Upon the Name of the Lord." Have you not called upon His name? Have you outsinned the power of God's grace to forgive and the blood to purge your conscience? At what point is a person "cut-off" from God? Christ told us to forgive 70 X 7 in a day and we are mere men. We cannot fathom God's grace. Salvation is [u]by[/u] grace [u]through[/u] faith.

What does the passage say but "turn and live." That's what God asks of us- turn to Him. Change your mind about your condition and turn. Agree with God about your condition. Saving faith is all of your trust in Christ and not in yourself.

It's when a person realizes how wretched they are that they are most in position to exercise saving faith. Its not when you think you have finally "measured up" and now are worthy to be saved. You never were or will be worthy of God's grace. You are hemmed in! You know there is none to help but God. You are right where God wants you if that is so. Turn and trust in Him with all of your being. Trust Him to save you from your Sin and you WILL be changed.

God Bless,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/6/6 16:06Profile
Marc_W
Member



Joined: 2005/6/3
Posts: 18
London Zone 3

 Re:

the very fact that you are concerned about this is a witness that your right with God. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of all wisdom!

I to have been thru this many times, you know what, its not God condeming you but the enemy! God convicts just as he did with the warning, He doesn't warn to turn away! No the enemy condems as he is condemed. Think about this, while you were walking in sin, were you concerned about God not receieving you? No of course not because the enemy had you where he wanted you.

Walk in the Light and He is in the Light and you'll have fellowship with Him and His blood will wash you from ALL sin. Seek His face brother with all your heart, He LOVES YOU SO MUCH!!!!

Now this is how you handle the enemy when he comes, LAUGH at him! When he reminds you of your past, you remind him of his future! LAUGH, LAUGH, LAUGH....he won't hang around for long!!!

Bless you brother, just remember, don't forget the Lords Grace, walk hard after Jesus, the only reason the enemy is out to stop you is because your a threat.


_________________
Marc Wheway

 2005/6/6 16:30Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: Is this any help?

Quote:
I will still serve the Lord even if I am going to hell,


Mmmmmmm.... when I read these words a thought jumped at me: The Lord doesn't want your service, he wants you." Many do indeed go to hell because they want to serve him but refuse to surrender to him - ie, give up the autonomy of their own lives.

Your comments remind me a bit of John Bunyan's testimony. He struggled over the wretchedness of his condition for a very long time before God gave him victory. But - look what came of it. His book Pilgrim's Progress is a timeless classic.

I sure can't know what is happening in your soul, only the Lord knows, and thankfully he can reveal it if you earnestly ask him. (trust me, I know from experience that that request can lead to some painful refining, but it's worth it.) Go for it! Keep on wrestling with God and don't turn your back on him, no matter how dark things may seem.

I trust that in his time you will indeed ENTER HIS REST and sense perfect peace and joy in his salvation.

Do you mind sharing about your salvation experience - what happened, what were your thoughts? What were you seeking after? etc... Maybe some "lights" will come on as you process your thoughts.

Diane


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Diane

 2005/6/6 19:31Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 649
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

Thank you all very much for your input. To share a little bit of my personal testimony, I said the "sinner's prayer" when I was about 13. I thought that was all there was to salvation and left it at that. At the time I did not know Christ from a doorknob. I went on sinning; smoking marijuana, living in debauchery, drinking, etc. It was not until I was about 17 I picked up a Bible someone had bought me and thought to myself, "maybe I should read this thing". So I read the Bible and the Lord gave me an appetite for His Word; I would read and pray for 8-10 hours a day(I was unemployed at the time). I believe the Lord revealed Himself to me; I believed that He had died and rose again from the dead, I started to hate sin and longed to be free of it, and started to seek His face continually. But for the last couple of months I have been backsliding and wondering if the Lord has cut me off of the vine, since I am producing nothing but bad fruit.


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Nigel Holland

 2005/6/7 2:19Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: the way is narrow

Hi, Drifter, It takes courage to be honest before others and share your struggles with sin.

I confess that we Christians have a tendency to offer a lot of simplistic solutions to sinners, and I have no desire to do that again. (they never worked for me)

I do not believe that our failures are necessarily a sign that God has "tossed us out". Nevertheless that doesn't mean that we should dismiss them. Unconquored sin is a symptom that something is still not okay between us and God. After all,
Christ came to set us free from these bondages in order that we can fellowship with him.

Christ did not merely offer a free ticket to heaven, or a better, less sinful life. He offered us a brand new life - his life in exchange for ours. The old corruptable self can never be fixed up. That's why it must die - be crucified, not just improved. We can't even do that for ourselves. All that we can do is fall down at the feet of the Lord, and cry out for mercy, like the Prodigal Son. We can only offer our ragged, wretched self to him to be his servant - with no conditions attatched.

I am reminded of the rich young ruler in the Bible who came to Jesus asking what he needed to DO to be saved (have eternal life). He wanted to make sure he was doing all the right things, and could not see that really he just wanted to make sure his old self could pass the test. In fact, even though this man was a fine standing man of integrity, his heart was just as corrupt as the worst sinnner. He was very different than the prodigal son. He wanted to remain in charge of his own life. He wanted to place his trust in the things of this world, including his OWN EFFORTS. He wanted an assurance policy but he did NOT want to be a follower of Christ. He wanted to cling to his old corruptable self.

I once heard a preacher say that we often we want to be free from troubling sins more than we want Christ. While these words sound cruel, I do think that the path to Christ is through the realization that we don't wnat Christ as much as we'd like to think. We are totally blind, naked, wretched and poor. It is against our nature to want Christ.

Well, those words are not answers, but merely food for thought. I know that the Spirit will guide you into inner truth about yourself, and truth about the ways of God.

The name "Drifter" reminds me of words in an old hymn, "Come thou Fount of every Blessing"

"Prone to wander, Lord I know it"

"Bind my wandering heart to thee....
Here's my heart, O take and seal it;
Seal if for thy courts above."

May those words be the cry of your heart.
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2005/6/7 4:20Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi drifter,

Quote:
It was not until I was about 17 I picked up a Bible someone had bought me and thought to myself, "maybe I should read this thing". So I read the Bible and the Lord gave me an appetite for His Word; I would read and pray for 8-10 hours a day(I was unemployed at the time). I believe the Lord revealed Himself to me; I believed that He had died and rose again from the dead, I started to hate sin and longed to be free of it, and started to seek His face continually. But for the last couple of months I have been backsliding and wondering if the Lord has cut me off of the vine, since I am producing nothing but bad fruit.



There are bacically three types of sinners:

1) Careless
2) Awakened
3) Convicted


[i]Careless[/i] sinners could care-less about their salvation. [i]Awakened[/i] sinners are those that have gone through something or maybe something has happened by God's own hand to get the sinners attention and get them thinking about their soul. Finally there are [i]convicted[/i] sinners. These are those whom the Holy Spirit has brought to the cross roads and said in effect, "choose you this day whom you will serve." He has taken on the role of Jesus Christ in the earth and is showing them "what thing they lackest." If they respond 'rightly' in saving faith- placing all their trust in Christ- they will be born-again of the Spirit. This is total submission to God.

Many never make the leap from 'convicted sinner' to 'Child of God.' They go on in life with the Holy spirit constantly dealing with them and they refuse to submit to God that area that He is demanding. Sinners prayers are of no effect here. One must turn to Christ and let go of that thing which the Holy Ghost is saying to let go of. For the rich young ruler his money was the point of contact for his rebellion. He trusted in the riches. He did not realize that his money could not save him. He did not understand his need for Christ. He justified himself by giving all that he had done to keep the commandments. He was an awakened sinner when he came to Christ and Christ took him to a 'convicted state' with the "one thing thou lackest" statement.

One may ask, why did He go away sorrowful? He wanted to have eternal life? yet, he obviously did not recognize the seriousness of his sin before God because he did not see his sin. Our Lord spent much of his time showing folk that they were sinners. When He was through with the Sermon on the Mount there had not been a soul under the sound of His voice that was not convicted. Take everything He said as a whole and all would be guilty of something.

I don't want to get off on a rabbit trail here, but the primary purpose of Christ's teachings was to show the 'plumb line' of righteousness that man might measure themselves and see their need for Christ. The life that He preached was one in which men would walk who were filled with the Spirit of God. He taught what one who walked in the Spirit lived like. Trying to take the words of Christ and make them an addendum to the 613 laws of the Old Testament is to miss the whole point.

So what is the Holy Spirit convicting [i]you[/i] of? What is He telling you over and over to 'lay that thing down'? Only you know that. Only you know the controversy that God has with you. If you will submit yourself unto God you would resist the devil and he would flee from you. The key is submission to God. You cannot resist the Holy Ghost and have victory over sin. If you truly are born again and are stuggling as a Prodigal Son, that is another matter all together. For now- examine yourself whether you be in the faith and make your calling and election sure.

God Bless,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/6/7 8:22Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 649
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

I realize that a "sinner's prayer" is not necessarily what saves a person, but the attitude of ones heart must be repentant and submissive to Christ to recieve salvation(and ones motives must be pure). I am constantly examining myself to see whether I am in the faith, but it seems I never get an answer from the Lord, hence, I worry about having lost my salvation as a result of disobedience.


_________________
Nigel Holland

 2005/6/7 15:49Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi drifter,

When the Prodigal Son came home to the Father's House we have a great picture of the way in which God views our departure from the Pig Pen. In the story there is a great contrast:

1) The attitude of God towards those who have come to themselves.
2) The attitude of the 'brother' when the prodigal sibling came home.

God was prepared for a celebration! Here we read:

[i]

7 And when he [u]came to himself[/u], he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants
20 And he arose, and came to his father. [b]But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, [u]and ran,[/u] and fell on his neck, and kissed him.[/b]
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. [u]And they began to be merry[/u].
25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing.
26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and entreated him.[/i]

Notice how the Father ran to him when He seen him yet afar off. He had compassion on him and fell on him and kissed him. What a picture! One of the greatest evidences of us not being in the right Spirit when we minister is that we do not do as this Father did when we see a sinner coming to repentance. When was the last time you saw a person rejoice with joy and laughter and tears at the salvation of a sinner or the coming home of a backslider? Was it not Duncan Cambell who told of the story of the woman crying with her son saying "Oh Willy. Willy are you coming at last?!" That is the heart cry of one who sees the prodigal coming home.

On the flip side of this is the 'brother' who never fell into such sin. Who never left the Father's house. What was his reaction? Better still, who do we emulate when a sinner comes to repentance? Do we rejoice with the Angels?

Understand drifter that when you are sincere with God He will run to restore you to a right place. he will slay the fatted calf and place upon your finger the 'ring' (as it were). He will cloth you afresh with His righteousness. Oh that God's people would find it in their heart to love a sinner like God does.

God Bless,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/6/7 16:18Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi drifter,

When the Prodigal Son came home to the Father's House we have a great picture of the way in which God views our departure from the Pig Pen. In the story there is a great contrast:

1) The attitude of God towards those who have come to themselves.
2) The attitude of the 'brother' when the prodigal sibling came home.

God was prepared for a celebration! Here we read:

[i]

7 And when he [u]came to himself[/u], he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants
20 And he arose, and came to his father. [b]But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, [u]and ran,[/u] and fell on his neck, and kissed him.[/b]
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. [u]And they began to be merry[/u].
25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing.
26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and entreated him.[/i]

Notice how the Father ran to him when He seen him yet afar off. He had compassion on him and fell on him and kissed him. What a picture! One of the greatest evidences of us not being in the right Spirit when we minister is that we do not do as this Father did when we see a sinner coming to repentance. When was the last time you saw a person rejoice with joy and laughter and tears at the salvation of a sinner or the coming home of a backslider? Was it not Duncan Cambell who told of the story of the woman crying with her son saying "Oh Willy. Willy are you coming at last?!" That is the heart cry of one who sees the prodigal coming home.

On the flip side of this is the 'brother' who never fell into such sin. Who never left the Father's house. What was his reaction? Better still, who do we emulate when a sinner comes to repentance? Do we rejoice with the Angels?

Understand drifter that when you are sincere with God He will run to restore you to a right place. he will slay the fatted calf and place upon your finger the 'ring' (as it were). He will cloth you afresh with His righteousness. Oh that God's people would find it in their heart to love a sinner like God does.

God Bless,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/6/7 16:18Profile





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