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Staff I understand your explanation about the "persecution gospel" this very thing bothered me throughout many previous discussions. For me (I am holding a partial preterist ammillennial end times view) it is not evident from the scriptures that this generation (or the next) will be the last one before Christ comes back. They used to say (based on Matthew 24:34?) that the generation that has seen the establishment of Israel in 1948 will be the last generation before the second coming. That generation is practically passed, so now how do we know whether it is 10, 100, or 1000 generations before Jesus comes back. Those who speak about persecution always bring up verses about the great tribulation. Now the time of the great tribulation is understood differently according to each end time view. According to my view it took place under Nero, and since then Christ's return was and is always imminent.
To summarize:
1. I am not able to estimate even the approximate time of Christ's return from the Scriptures.
2. I am not convinced from the scriptures that there will be a persecution and a difficult time for the believers just before his return. It is not specified, he can come in good or bad times, any time.

I want to be like those wise virgins always ready for His coming, my readiness will not depend on current news events, presidents or predictions of persecutions. My readiness is not knowing these things but knowing Him.

 2016/11/14 1:39


Hi Yehuan,

1. I believe that the oil represents the Holy Spirit. If one is not Baptized in the Holy Spirit then one will not survive the great delusion and the persecution associated with the last days. ( I am not willing to debate the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, for me it is a second unique experience for the most part. If there are those on the forum who disagree with that then God bless you we shall agree to disagree)

2. I rest upon the finished work of the Lord in my salvation and my sanctification. Yet I cooperate with God because I have free will and God forces me to do nothing. I believe a few things about salvation. I have the free will choice to accept or reject what God has offered at Calvary. In sanctification I can resist God in stubbornness and cause myself to delay the process of becoming more Christlike in my life by letting my flesh get in the way.

My flesh must bow to the Word and will of the Lord. It is not good enough to abide in the Word for instance, I must continually abide in the Word of God. It is not good enough for me to pray once, I must continually abide in prayer. I myself can share the good news but also without bewaring when I stand lest I fall can drift away and find myself reprobate. I do not believe in once saved always saved. I believe that I can walk away from the Lord. I believe that it is a relatively rare thing yet the Bible, in my view, plainly teaches that.

And so, in the latter days, many will fall away, many who were never saved in the first place will be revealed as impurities are revealed by fire. Trials and persecution is the fire that separates the wheat from the chaff, the slag from the gold. These and many more are my sincere convictions and I am not willing to debate them. If there are folks on the forum who feel differently then again, God bless them. All of these subjects have been debated at length here on the forum over the years.

Anyone who attempts to debate me on these issues will be disappointed. It has taken me many years to come to a place where I no longer feel the need to defend or defeat another on matters of theology. Let there be peace in all things among the saints and if one is fully persauded of positions contrary to which I have just written then of course that is between you and the Lord.I will always give an answer for the hope that lies within me and I just did :) God bless all the saints on the forum...........bro Frank

 2016/11/14 3:10

Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1414


Hi Frank,
My view is not boxed at all,in fact I am pointing out that Gregs view is clearly boxed in by his post trib view(im not saying his view is wrong) but I am saying that it has consequences.
I only bring up The Tribulation because thats what Greg discussed in the link he attached.I do not want to debate that at all.
The problem is plainly this.
FOR Years SI members have said persecution,persecution ,persecution and have not in any way said their would be a period of Grace(if that what this turns out to be)
Now that we may have a period of grace they dont know what to do with it.
They Now have a simple problem:
They cant say that its a good thing that we have a Vice President thats full on Christian or that its good to have a President that is against abortion and if they do you'l will find a big negative BUT.......coming along straight behind.
I can accept periods of grace but when I hear SI members prophesy and say persecution,persecution I didnt hear them say anything about a periods of grace.How can I take them seriously when they are clearly inaccurate in their predictions,
Yours Staff

 2016/11/14 7:49Profile


Hi Staff,

Now dont take this too much to heart but I think your statement is quite silly. Just because there is, hypothetically, a period of grace, then those who speak of coming persecution are wrong? Yikes, what kind of logic is that? No one knows the ins and outs of the future. W know that in the end days, just like in the days of Noah, they will be buying and selling and going about their business. Even in the vast horror of Nazi Germany, folks got up every day and went to work why the devilish forces went about their business. Even at the beginning of WWII in Britain it was called the phoney war.

I for one rejoice in any period of grace including this one and in fact leading up to this election I prayed against the forces of evil, against Hillary and Clinton and rejoice that crooked woman, that unabashed supporter of abortion was defeated. It in no way changes the fact that persecution is just around the corner and to think it does change anything is perhaps to be one who falls in the day of deception and cries out " peace, peace," when there is no peace.................bro Frank

 2016/11/14 8:46

Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1414


Hi Appolus,
I didnt hear one person who promoted persecution Christianity prophesy a period of grace,not one.All we got was the persecution.
We have to understand that our endtimes views whatever they are have a direct on their Church Views.
Ok its is clear that at least part of the Tribulation will be way way way more difficult than World War 11 at its worst.
The phoney war was a short period of time where both sides geared up for war,in the Trib their will be no such period.Also the tribulation is not a war.
Its not just that people will be buying selling etc its the picture Jesus was painting is normal things are going on the world is all well with itself.No intellectually honest view could say the period Jesus talks about is also the worst worst worst time in history,it not just wars its God taking vengenance.Its God that causing all the difficulties not mere man,
Yours Staff

 2016/11/14 18:11Profile


Well Staff, lets agree to disagree...............bro Frank

 2016/11/14 19:27

Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1985

 Re: Millennial Madness

I was going to post a link to a documentary, but I decided I'd just start another thread with it.

See you on the thread!

 2016/11/14 19:38Profile


Savannah - I think i can understand why you recommended the documentary.
It is dangerous and unhealthy if we focus too much on current events etc rather then on salvation and sanctification.

Paul Washer has a good sermon here on SI "The Power of The Gospel"
The whole sermon is important, but I just quickly want to point out one thing. After about 36min he talks about
"theological battles " that are sometimes going on and he was asked what he thinks about this or that theology and he
answered: "well I really don't think about that, I just want to love my wife "

 2016/11/14 22:14

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