East TN (for now)
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I lean toward what HeyDave is saying. Say what you will about the movie, I think the Matrix hit it on the head. We only have the illusion of control.
| 2016/11/10 16:12||Profile|
Just listened to the message by John Piper that Greg posted on another thread. JOY AND REJOICING UNDER PERSECUTION OF THE STATE.
He hits it spot on here. A must listen! His basic premise is we are not of this wotld, but citizens of heaven. We cannot 'Christianize' this world, in fact to try and do so is a betrayal of our allegiance to Christ. We should be calling people out of submission to this world and to embrace Christ who translates us into His Kingdom.
To try and use political authority, i.e. the state, to inforce by law Christian morality is a dangerous road to travel. Here in Europe we have a dark history of Christendom ruling over the people with an iron fist. Nothing good comes fromit, only evil.
It is the church that should uphold within itself sexual morality, sanctity of life, etc, etc and call those in the world to sumbit willingly to Christ and then walk in this way. Do we really think that forcing unregenerate folk to obey righteousness that they will become righteous?
What we are seeing is the error of Christian dominionism, confusing the Kingdom of God with an earthly nation. There are those who think that the world through political means and the church will become the kingdom of God now. This is at odds with Jesus's teaching, that says the world will get more wicked until He returns and judges the nations. Only then will He set up His rule over the nations with a rod or iron.
| 2016/11/10 16:33||Profile|
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I am certainly under no such delusion. But I do think we should do what we can to stem evil if we are able to do so.
| 2016/11/10 17:34||Profile|
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Tho' I have never felt compelled to participate in our electoral process, I have followed and studied them closely since the Iranian hostage crisis in the '70's when I became "politically aware" and since then have studied the history of American politics as an (as much as possible) objective observer.
I can honestly say this years events are an anomaly tho not surprisingly so. From the first time I heard brother Trump speak, after announcing his candidacy almost 2yrs ago, it was clear to me he would become our 45th president. This is a position I have maintained publicly throughout this election cycle in spite of all the laughs and pushback. Initially the thing that stood out to me was that he was not under the "spell of mass media" and had the uncanny ability to create a narrative where he was the only logical choice. (Btw I do believe we have many who are still under the "spell" and we as Christians have the honor of being a lamp unto their feet)
When I first made point that he would be a formidable force, many of my Christian brothers and sisters laughed and I let them, offering no resistance but simply saying, just wait and see.
Then I heard the "prophecy" from 2011 by the lieutenant firefighter and it appears he was spot on.
It became more clear to me that this man (brother Trump) had been chosen by God when I watched the powers of this world unite against, not his campaign, but against the man himself... and they did everything they could to destroy him, his business, his family, even his children. Tho in spite of all the earthly powers possessed by this alliance, they were unable to stop the man God has chosen. As such they will not stop, they will simply regroup and reengage but their efforts will again prove unsuccessful because God has chosen this man to do a thing and His will be done.
I know many if not all here on SI that read this will think that I am way off and have "drank the cool aid" and to that I offer no resistance nor defense, I would only say....wait and see, for our God is mighty and is able to save to the uttermost and is still very much in the business of doing so even tho many times He is working through imperfect men and women.
Also I'd like to make a few more predictions... firstly- this is only the beginning and this phenomenon will spread to other countries as they become inspired and empowered. Secondly- we will witness America realign herself with values reflected in the scriptures and as such strong preaching will once again find its place in American pulpits as the "grace message" fades significantly. Thirdly- allot of "christians" will join the other side and fall away from the faith as they will become offended by the message of repentance. These people will be just like those who said "hosanna" one day and "crucify him" the next in that they will be people who voted for or supported brother Trump in the election but will turn away and spit out bitterness from their mouths and this will be ironically in response to him upholding a value that is distinctly Christian.
Finally- Having not one, but two Christian brothers in the Oval Office will reignite the forces of darkness against our country where over the last several administrations the dark forces were given place, they will be expelled and with that will come war.
| 2016/11/10 17:45||Profile|
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I do not like politics. I haven't voted in quite some time, but seeing the evil that is going forth in this nation...so much abortion, perversion of all kinds....gender neutrality being pushed on toddlers, I HAD to step out in faith, standing for what is JUST... trusting God in prayer. I don't trust the system at all! I don't agree with the prosperity movement /Sons of God kingdom dominion now/ Hebrew Roots/ or any other teaching that pulls the attention away from Jesus Christ alone. I stood for the unborn, for the defenseless. President Elect Trump is NOT a savior.
I voted in faith trusting the Lord....NOT putting my trust in man. Anything we do apart from faith is sin. There's the hope that God will use the foolish things of the world to confound the wise. I thought about Joseph being a leader with Pharoe and how God used him in the midst of a crooked political system.... Perhaps the Lord may do the same with Vice President Elect Pence...if indeed he is truly a brother in Christ. We are in training....
2 Peter 1: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
| 2016/11/10 17:56|
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How can finite minds understand an infinite God?
| 2016/11/10 18:08||Profile|
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I'm watching all this from the sidelines but would now still like to make a few comments.
"By their fruit we shall know them" and not by the promises they make! We will see over the next months and years how things will unfold. Some of the presidents in US history didn't even remain in power for the full term, for what ever reason.
Even if he is chosen by God there is no guarantee that people will listen and repent.
In God's Word we read; "You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit, just as your fathers did. 52Which of the prophets did your fathers fail to persecute? Acts 7:52
There are probably more "stiff-necked people" now who don't want to listen and repent then ever before.
Thank you Dave for your posts, I also think "you hit it on the head".
Also Greg you wrote some balanced posts and thank you for John Pipers video.
May we use this time wisely and keep our lamps full of oil and may we see people repenting and getting saved.
"and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land". 2 Chronicles 7:14
| 2016/11/10 19:39|