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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Trinity

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wijnand
Member



Joined: 2006/3/31
Posts: 110


 Trinity

Hi brothers,

I say this (part of a) reply on this forum:

"It seems in most epistles, in the greeting as well as in the salutations there is a clear clear distinction being made between "God the Father and Jesus the Lord",... why do you think Holy Spirit directed the writers to make this distinction?"

I would love to hear your thoughts about this.
Texts like John 17:3 and 1 Corintians 8:6 make a distinction between the Father als God and Christ as Lord... why?

And the second question: why do the apostles in the book of acts focus on the humanity of Christ instead of most reformed guys I know that preach more about the divine side of Jesus?


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Wijnand de Ridder

 2016/10/10 8:17Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re: Trinity

Quote:

And the second question: why do the apostles in the book of acts focus on the humanity of Christ instead of most reformed guys I know that preach more about the divine side of Jesus?



Because they didn't know the reformed guys.



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Tim

 2016/10/10 9:48Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1234
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: Trinity

Brother Wijnand,

I hope to tread lightly here and not cause a ruckus,... but I personally find the trinity to be the single most misunderstood subject in Christendom. Partly because of the simplicity of it and partly because the "doctrine" of the trinity has become a "golden calf" of sorts where to even question the prevailing views is to be labeled a heretic and who wants that?
Having said this, I love truth! Therefore I cannot bow a knee to what, I find to be, in contrast to what the scriptures plainly say, yea even my Lord Himself plainly says. After lots of study and still no clear understanding, in fact I had even more questions, my wife asked me this "Fletcher, have you asked God?" I must admit that at that point I hadn't as I was relying on my ability to search out the scriptures as a berean and it was a humbling experience to say the least to have my bride have to ask such a thing, tho I'm grateful she did:)
So I did ask Him plainly, "is there a trinity?" To which He replied "Yes" and then followed with this "son, if you will just continue to listen to me and follow after me, I will lead you to a place where you are mature enough to handle my answer but right now you cannot handle it".... This rocked me and all at once left me feeling humbled and yet encouraged. Still there remained in me a place yet unsatisfied and so I inquired again of the Lord, "is the doctrine of the trinity correct?" To which He replied,"The doctrine of the trinity is mans attempt to divide that which is indivisible". This struck me as profoundly important and undeniably true, so again I inquired of the Lord and asked Him "why?" And He answered me "because they want to control it, and in order to control it they need to be able to break it down and explain it". This, for some reason, reached that deep place in me and quieted that voice of concern, not silencing it but assuring it of an end that would in and of itself be Truth Himself-
This conversation took place a year or two ago and while the Lord has grown me in His Son and grown His Son in me, still I must admit (to my shame) that I simply lack the maturity of faith to apprehend the simplicity of it all.
Having said that, my studies and research has led me to conclude that the current "doctrinal framework" for the trinity was conceived during the Augustinian period where Christendom moved from being persecuted to being protected by Rome and while this surely was a welcomed occurrence perhaps the cost was greater than anyone could have imagined...

To your question of the accounts in Acts, I have noticed them too dear brother and especially Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

Now consider that Nazareth was in fact a crappy lil town and not the idealized place we, in retrospect, ascribe it to be,...
There is a reason that Holy Spirit directed Peter to use this specific terminology so as to make the Lord Jesus very real and immediately accessible as a "local" person!
Personally it seems their (the apostles) and our understanding of this subject differ greatly- I mean the word trinity doesn't even appear in scripture so (for me) that in itself is quite telling-

Ok gonna quit rambling and sorry to respond at such length without answering your questions,...

And brother Tim's answer is quite accurate in my mind;)


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Fletcher

 2016/10/10 10:41Profile
forrests
Member



Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301


 Re: Trinity

Quote:
And the second question: why do the apostles in the book of acts focus on the humanity of Christ...?



One thing that came to my mind is that realizing and appreciating the humanity of Jesus Christ brings to the forefront the hope that we, too, can live unto God in holiness and power by His Spirit through the Holy Spirit given to us. It brings forth in the mind the issue of the light of the life of God in an "earthen vessel", even Jesus - and our call and duty, as the "temple of God", to have and reveal the same (think: "let your light so shine..." - and we know who is our light and life if we are in Christ).

Though I do believe that Jesus was and ever is fully God, I do also believe that He was and is evermore fully man, too. He is the completion (in one man) and the seed of the Divine thought and purpose. And He is our means, by the Spirit He supplied to us, to achieve the same end - through "vital union" with Him by the Holy Spirit.

Focusing on His Divinity surely has benefits, no doubt. But it is seeing Him as the perfect and representative man (God's representative man, both as an end in mind and a means of achieving this end) that we are both convicted of our coming short of the mind and word of God, and are also encouraged that there is hope for us in the arm of the LORD being revealed in (and ultimately through) us.

If Jesus, by the power of the Father, through the Holy Spirit, by way of humility and dependence upon Him ("Him", I say, for the Two are surely One), can be such as God can receive and highly exalt and justify and remain Just and retain His Glory in doing so - so can we, through Him, if we abide and walk in Him and live in and through Him, be glorified together with Him!

What hope! It is Jesus and the Power of God working in us through faith in Him and not we ourselves!

But the more immediate takeaway (and perhaps more urgent and vital to the Glory of God and salvation of souls) is this: that God can and must be glorified not only in, but through us - by the light of the life of Jesus being seen in His House as He is allowed to live and shine through us! We have a high and holy calling - not just a high and holy message.

Like Jesus, our Example, we too are to be "the word made flesh" - through Him and His ministry of the Spirit (the law written on the heart) and for His glory!

Also, just a "heads up" - I understand what you are saying when you speak of "the divine side" of Jesus, but others may accuse you of "heresy" for implying that Jesus was "half God and half man" as opposed to "fully God and fully man"... ;)

h/t: T. Austin-Sparks and B.H. Clendennen


_________________
~ Forrest

 2016/10/10 11:00Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1989
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Brother Wijnand: I think Fletcher's answer is a good one. I would add to it this. God is Spirit. If I asked the question, "what exactly does that mean", I think we could all sit and scratch our heads a bit, wonder, try to come up with a really good explanation, and probably fall short. God reveals Himself to us through His Spirit, through His word, and through His creation. We see dimly, not having a full understanding of God.

We have trouble with one God manifest in three distinct persons. He is three, and yet He is one. But He is Spirit, not flesh. Jesus was incarnate, became flesh, but then was glorified. He is both one with the Father, and "seated at the right hand of the Father" at the same time. He is co-equal with the Father, one with the Father, and yet subject to the will of the Father. The Holy Spirit is both God and at the same time sent by God. I think our trouble in thinking comes when we try to fit this into a human model or construct. But God does not fit into that model, He made that model. He is the creator who is above and outside, if you will, of His creation. He is beyond us and our ability to totally comprehend or understand His glory.

There are relationships in the Spirit that we cannot understand in the flesh. We simply have no model to adequately describe it. Yet He is three in one, the triune Godhead.


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Travis

 2016/10/10 20:06Profile









 Re:

Although God is spirit he is also flesh, Jesus Christ is flesh and bone right now and forever and seated at the right hand of the Father.

 2016/10/11 8:45
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1234
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Sh'ma Yisrael haShem Eloheinu haShem Echad

Whatever way we conceive and view the trinity, it must fit without contradiction in the scripturally declared character of God-


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Fletcher

 2016/10/11 11:51Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 1975


 Re: II Cor 13:14

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all. (II Cor 13:14)


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David Winter

 2016/10/11 11:54Profile





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