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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : What If it Doesn’t Happen?

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 What If it Doesn’t Happen?

Faith is consummated in our word of faith. For third-level living requires a catching on to the mind of God through our minds in a situation, replacing our negative thinking; then boiling it down to a clear, specific objective; then stating that objective in its direct, practical form by my word of faith; then believing that it is already in existence, because there is no time factor (past, present or future) in God’s “fourth dimension.” So we also, as He, call the things that be not as though they are.

Then, having done that by our word of faith, we never repeat it again in the form of a request; we don’t ask, we thank. We continue repeating our “thank you” in our inner recognition of what is coming, for our faith has within it a “sense” of the thing anticipated. We already “see” in faith as well as speak that word of faith.

Never, of all things, do we ask, “Why hasn’t it happened?” We surely give ourselves totally away, if, when the answer has not yet come (or even after it “cannot” come, for the time for the answer has passed with no answer) we say, “He hasn’t done what I believed for. It hasn’t happened. Faith doesn’t work.” By that we would imply that the answer depended on our faith, and this has failed; or we have believed amiss, or something. But it is His faith expressed by us, and we are saying He has done it. Not we, but He. Therefore, if it is a done thing by the word of faith, we never say it hasn’t been done. Never! For our word of faith means that we have said it has happened in the spirit. It has happened, and if someone says it hasn’t happened, we still say it has happened. God will fulfill His own word. It was He who told us to say to that mountain “Be gone!” and to believe that, when we pray, we have received. So it has happened. Hold on! Even if we do not see things until the other side of the grave! For it was said of the men of faith in Hebrews, “These all died in faith, not having received the promises but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them.” But even if they did not receive the fullness, they did have a good slice of the cake en route! I believed God for a solution to a problem in our missionary work forty years ago. I expected the answer, but did not see it come, and was tempted to say, “No answer. I must have been mistaken.” But just now the answer is appearing.

Of course the temptation is to question. “Was it my faith at fault?” “Was my motive right?” “Was I mistaken or presumptuous in speaking that word of faith?” Never accept those questionings which come from our souls. They come from the recurring temptation to move back into “separation”—as if it is not God speaking by us in our fixed union, but that we still have our separate, self-condemning selves. Condemnation accompanied by darkness comes from beneath. Conviction accompanied by light and peace comes from above. Go back to our spirit-centers where the word is “Be still, and know that I am God.” If I totally trust Him with a single eye, I shall see that what appeared to me to be a mistake, or to have had some flesh motivation behind it, is not; God will give the perfect and fully satisfying fulfillment.

Such times, when apparently faith does not become substance, are given us to establish us more thoroughly in the fact that we have the mind of Christ and must not recognize the false possibility that we are back in our old, divided, self-motivated outlook.

As for “presumption,” what that really means is that my word of faith had behind it a desire for my own satisfaction or self-display, rather than being solely for the glory of God or the benefit of others, or perhaps was meant to test God’s faithfulness. Don’t be frightened by such a barb. Don’t accept that in our union relationship with Christ our motives are flesh-centered. Stand to your “launch out in faith,” and believe that God meant it.

Sometimes, as with Paul, the exact desire, as first named, is refused: not with a No but with a far vaster Yes. Because if Paul had gotten the removal of his thorn in the flesh, we should all have forgotten about that as an incident of history. But we never forget the answer he received—a support to the whole church of Christ in all of the pressures of life–that “God’s strength is made perfect in weakness” (2 Cor. 12:7-11). And so inwardly conscious of this did Paul become that he went on to say, “Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake”; and then, no longer mentioning God in it, “…for when I am weak, then am I strong.” That is union. That is Paul speaking and living as God. A far vaster answer for the centuries than a temporary healing. So here it is. Keep speaking the word of faith, as I do, all the time. Say again and again, “This has happened, that has happened, for I inwardly see it has happened.” Watch for the happening, and enjoy the many times you see it happen.

By now it is surely clear that this is radically different from the normal underlying faith by which all who are born-again live. In that sense all Christians walk by faith and not by sight. But on the third level, “father” grade, of which we are now speaking, faith is the operating agent, the one and only means by which every situation of life is authoritatively handled. We are mountain-movers. Like those in Hebrews 11, we are stopping the mouths of lions; out of weakness we are made strong. We have an appetite for “tight corners,” as C. T. Studd said, to “give us the luxury of seeing God deliver us out of them.” We are now in permanent faith-action, as Jesus was on earth. This is the commissioned third-level life, using the word of faith as naturally and continually as we make normal human decisions. It is our common habit and practice.

We say this to underline that third-level living—with the rivers flowing outward, with the Spirit “mighty in us” towards all–means life is constant faith-action, way beyond the normal way of life in which, on occasions, prayer or faith is a useful resource. On this level, all life is faith-in- action. We are “fathers in action.”

by Norman Grubb

 2016/10/2 6:57
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 454
Michigan

 Re: What If it Doesn’t Happen?

Heresy hunters may pounce on this article because it begins with "the word of faith," but Norman was using that term long before the prosperity gospel came along.

This is an excerpt from Norman's last book, Yes I Am. Here is the full text ebook--

http://jacobboehmeonline.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Norman-Grubb-Yes-I-Am.243163448.pdf


_________________
Wayne Kraus

 2016/10/2 8:54Profile
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 454
Michigan

 Re:

//Of course the temptation is to question. “Was it my faith at fault?” “Was my motive right?” “Was I mistaken or presumptuous in speaking that word of faith?” Never accept those questionings which come from our souls. They come from the recurring temptation to move back into “separation”—as if it is not God speaking by us in our fixed union, but that we still have our separate, self-condemning selves. Condemnation accompanied by darkness comes from beneath. Conviction accompanied by light and peace comes from above. Go back to our spirit-centers where the word is “Be still, and know that I am God.” If I totally trust Him with a single eye, I shall see that what appeared to me to be a mistake, or to have had some flesh motivation behind it, is not; God will give the perfect and fully satisfying fulfillment.

Such times, when apparently faith does not become substance, are given us to establish us more thoroughly in the fact that we have the mind of Christ and must not recognize the false possibility that we are back in our old, divided, self-motivated outlook.//

That reminds me of a favorite quote from Jacob Boehme:

"God dwells in all things; and nothing comprehends Him, unless it be one with Him. But if it goes out from the One, it goes out of God into itself, and is other than God, and separates itself. And here it is that law arises, that it should proceed again out of itself into the One, or else remain separate from the One. And thus it may be known what is sin, or how it is sin. Namely, when the human will separates itself from God into an existence of its own, and awakens its own self, and burns in its own fire, which is not capable of the divine Fire."


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Wayne Kraus

 2016/10/2 8:59Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1962
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: What If it Doesn’t Happen?

Tuc: Reminds me of a story I read last night in a book about the life of Smith Wigglesworth. A young girl was paralyzed from the waist down. She read in scripture that the sick should call on the elders of the church and have them anoint and pray for them and they would be healed. She did so and nothing happened. But from that moment on she would point to that scripture and say, "Look what I found in scripture, and I have had that done to me.", and she expected the healing to come.

Some six months or more afterward, she was not better, but in worse condition. One evening she felt like asking her mother not to help her to bed. Her mother closed the door and left and this girl all of the sudden strength began to return to her legs. Within minutes she was standing. She opened the door and said something to the effect of, "Mother, come look at what God has just done for me." Her mother came and promptly fainted. :-)

This girl stood in faith despite the appearance of circumstances, and saw the answer to her prayer. How many of us, including me, would eventually give up and go on with life as usual?


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Travis

 2016/10/2 9:11Profile
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 600


 Re: What If it Doesn’t Happen?

I know somebody who had a congenital heart problem. He was part of a pentecostal church. Through 'word of faith', he had been testifying in public how he was miraculously healed, despite the persistence of the signs and symptoms.

He died just recently in a hospital because well, my presumption is because of uncorrected electrolyte imbalance from his treatment and medications. Although the immediate cause of death maybe iatrogenic, (I believe he may have lived longer then) he was hospitalized because of the worsening state of his disease, meaning his 'word of faith' did nothing to cure his condition.

Was he at fault in one way or another. He was actually offered financial assistance for a heart surgery but he refused. Should his pastor or church be blamed for making him acted the way he did. So, what now.


 2016/10/2 9:25Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote:- Heresy hunters may pounce on this article because it begins with "the word of faith.

Now I ain't a heresy hunter but when certain names come up I will speak up.

Norman Grubb - is one of those names - When he reference to some of the mystic writers he said, "These are out of bounds to the orthodox; but I have often got more from them than from normal Bible exegesis".

According to his own testimony, during a time of severe despair and doubt as to the existence of God, he desperately sought for answers among the writings of mystics. "My answer came through the mystics and has been widening ever since", he writes.

Norman Grubb is a typical example of countless others, who for whatever reason, struggled to walk by faith and unfortunately turned to Gnostic ideas (mysticism) to experience a sense of spirituality and a feeling of belonging to God. Like Norman Grubb, numerous Christians, in spite of all of their experiences, are floundering in doubt for lack of faith in God's Word and instead are searching for answers in mysticism - the spirit of Gnosticism.


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Colin Murray

 2016/10/2 14:46Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1962
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

passerby:

The problem with examples such as you and I have given is that we cannot see into the person's heart. We cannot see what is happening inside of them. We only have a window into what is happening through the dim reflection of their words or actions.

Wigglesworth was used by God to minister healing to vast numbers of people. The healings were notable and miraculous. Yet he suffered from excruciating pain due to kidney stones. He would get out of bed, minister and see people healed, and then return to bed in great pain. He actually said that he did not understand it. He said that if a man could understand all there was to understand about divine healing then that man would understand all there was to know about God, meaning that he freely admitted that we just don't understand it all.

We have a tendency to latch onto a truth and drive it into a ditch. The WOF had a revelation of a truth and that was our response of faith to the word of God. But, many in that movement centered up so much on that revelation that they tried to apply it in areas where it is not applicable. They went to seed on it so to speak. Many believed the doctrine, assented to it mentally, emotionally, or intellectually, and tried to apply it, but did not understand the whole counsel of scripture. They thought they were truly in faith, when in reality they were into presumption.

That is the short answer that I would have. Not sure we could "blame"anyone. If this person was a truly born again believer, his death was gain to himself, though it was a loss to those around him temporarily. That truth gives us hope and confidence. But to try to cast blame is both very difficult to do and totally unfruitful in my opinion. Rather, we need to apply ourselves to prayerful study of the word of God, a diligent seeking of true intimacy with the Father, and an obedience to the Holy Spirit that ushers in His anointing to our lives so that we can rightly divide the word of truth and have a faith that is founded upon the bedrock of God's word and promise and made alive by our relationship with Him.


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Travis

 2016/10/2 15:42Profile





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