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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : "It is not your hold of Christ that saves you; it is His hold of you."

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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

almost the same; It is not me in Christ that saves me, it is Christ in me.

By The incorruptible Seed of the Word of God, Jesus Christ in you is the only birthing that counts to the Father.

Now I can say I am in Christ, because He was first birthed in me.

2 Corinthians 2:15-17 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
"speak we in Christ"

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father

"It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me."

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

I think this is pretty close to what Spurgeon was getting at.

Christ in me, making me in Christ:

Phillip


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Phillip

 2016/10/9 2:48Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: "It is not your hold of Christ that saves you; it is His hold of you."

Spurgeon's understanding seemed to be this : To have true peace and comfort we do not rest on our will power, decision and personal strength to be kept.

Peter did just that :
He speculated about how the future was going to play out :
He made a decision that he would not deny the Lord no matter what.
He made up his mind that He would go to prison and die before he would deny the Lord.
He was confident in his own strength to keep the course.

ADD : and he concluded that others may not have the same level of will power and strength to keep the course that he felt that he had

And he failed and If our mindset it the same as Peters was how do we suppose that our outcome will be any different than his was ?

Spurgeon's understanding was that we are to trust on the Lord's Strength to Keep us, We are to trust and rest : On
The Lords Keeping promises and strength to preserve us till the end.
The Lord is whom we are to trust and not ourselves.

In the end the reason that Peter faith did not completley Fail was because of Christ hold on him. Luke 22:32
But he learned a valuable lesson on trusting in himself.







 2016/10/9 15:16Profile









 Re: "It is not your hold of Christ that saves you; it is His hold of you."

If it depended on our ability to hold on to Him - NO ONE WOULD BE SAVED!!

NO ONE

 2016/10/9 18:27
forrests
Member



Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301


 Re: Amen, Narrowpath

I do not hope or trust in my ability to "hold fast" to Him, but do rest in His Power which keeps me - though He has given us the clear instructions to "hold fast" and I dare not neglect my duty in this.

Quote:
by narrowpath on 2016/10/1 14:46:32

I need to hold the hand of him that holds me firm. I could struggle myself free and he would let go of me, but not without entreating me back.

Remember the lost son, the father did not hold him back.

Here is where my hold is required. Negligence on my side will lead to loss.


Hold fast to the word 1 Cor 15:2, Php 2:16, Tit 1:9, 2 Timothy 1:13

Hold fast to the head Colossians 2:19

Hold fast to what is good 1 Thessalonians 5:21

Hold fast to the tradition taught 2 Thessalonians 2:15

hold fast the confidence Heb 3:6

Hold fast our confession Heb 4:14, Heb 10:23

hold fast to My name Rev 2:13

hold fast what you have Rev 2:25, Rev 3:11



Amen, "Narrowpath", thank you for sharing these precious words from our loving Father and Living Head.

"And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— *if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard,* which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister."
~ Colossians 1:21-23 (emphasis, by way of asterisks, mine.)

We are not saved by our ability, but through our, in faith, abiding in Him and, --> by faith <-- , holding fast to Him (not by power nor by might, but by His Spirit - through faith, for "the just shall live by faith").


_________________
~ Forrest

 2016/10/10 11:23Profile
forrests
Member



Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301


 Re: Beautifully, skillfully, gracefully and graciously put, brother.

Quote:
by StirItUp on 2016/10/1 10:22:05

Yes brothers, I cannot picture Jesus Christ holding us by the scruff of the neck while we kick and scream to be somewhere else 🙂
Paradoxes of the Christian life. Dying to live, losing to gain, humbling ourselves to be exalted. Holding on by letting go...

As always, it IS His power that keeps us, yes, but that through faith.
All of the benefits we possess in Christ remains ours as we remain in Him and hold fast to our faith in Christ. That holding fast is not a fleshly grasping but a patient trusting rest in Him.

Blessings,

_________________
William



Thank you for that. What a drink of cold water. I have touched Jesus in your humility and graciousness. I am sure He is well pleased with your yielding to Him and His ability to reveal Himself through you, brother.


_________________
~ Forrest

 2016/10/10 11:30Profile
StirItUp
Member



Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 941
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

Thank you for your kind words Forrest!

It is so encouraging to receive feedback when our comments have been helpful to our brothers.

God bless.


_________________
William

 2016/10/10 15:37Profile









 Christ Himself was held tight by His father

Yes Christ had to depend totally on His father's promise to keep and hold him. How can we do better than that?

This is a section written by David Wilkerson on the new Covenant.

God gave His Son these everlasting covenant promises:

"You will have the Holy Spirit upon You without measure." Jesus testified, "The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me" (Isaiah 61:1). Christ did not have just a small portion of the Spirit, coming to Him in little drops. He had the Father's Spirit in fullness, without measure: "For God does not give the Spirit by measure" (John 3:34).

"You will never be out of My sight. My presence will always be with You." According to the author of Hebrews, God gave this promise to Jesus: "I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son" (Hebrews 1:5). This meant Christ would constantly be under His Father's watchful eye. He would always have the Father's help available to Him.

"I will lift You up in all times of opposition and discouragement." Isaiah wrote: "He will not fail nor be discouraged, till He has established justice in the earth; and the coastlands shall wait for His law" (Isaiah 42:4). God is saying, "Every time the enemy brings discouragement upon You, I will be there to counteract it. I'm going to encourage You by My Spirit every time You need it."

"I will highly exalt You and give You a name above all other names." Paul wrote, "God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow" (Philippians 2:9-10).

"After Your work is finished, I will bring You back to glory." Jesus said, "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?" (Luke 24:26). He knew the Father had promised, "Son, after You have fulfilled all the terms of the covenant, I will bring You back to glory - in victory, power and anointing."

The Father made this covenant pledge to His Son: "I, the LORD, have called You in righteousness, and will hold Your hand; I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, as a light to the Gentiles" (Isaiah 42:6). God was saying, "My hand will always be holding on to Yours. You will never be away from My keeping power. I pledge to keep You safe from all the schemes of the devil."

And Christ appropriated this promise of help from His Father: "My God shall be My strength" (Isaiah 49:5), and "I will put My trust in Him" (Hebrews 2:13). He was saying in these verses, "My Father made a covenant with Me, and it's settled. It is good for eternity, because He cannot lie. He said He would be My strength - and now I appropriate all of that promised power."

Here are all the terms of the covenant, laid out in black and white for every believer to see. The Father and Son have hidden none of them from us. They want us to be encouraged by them all. The Father is showing us His faithfulness to His Son, to prove to us He will be just as faithful to us, Christ's seed.

 2016/10/11 7:56
forrests
Member



Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301


 Re: Christ Himself was held tight by His father

I absolutely agree that it is by the grace and power of God that we are saved and kept and made to stand...but that doesn't negate the reality that it is by humility and and faith that one receives the grace of God - hence: "The just shall live by faith."

It seems that some believe that it is 100% a work of God and that man and his will and willingness have absolutely no place or duty in permitting the grace of God to come in and cooperate (or "work together") with it...

It is in the knowledge that it is only by the grace of God anyone will be made to stand, and that this grace is only accessible in Christ through His blood, that one maintains the "fear and trembling" necessary to truly "work out your own salvation" and "keep yourselves in the love of God" and to be careful to ever be "building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit"...

It is the sober reality that I must maintain sincerity and humility and "work out [my] own salvation with fear and trembling"; seeing that it is "God who works in [me] both to will and to do for His good pleasure"; that keeps me in the place of humility and brokenness needed to "pray in the Holy Spirit."

I am not seeking to negate the scriptures the speak of the precious grace and power of God to save and keep a person "to the end" that he may be "blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."

But nor do I dare neglect and ignore all of the faithful warnings and instructions of God to His people either, which are also mercifully given to us and dearly received as from a Loving and Holy Father, and which are also the setting in which the gem of the grace of God is set and held in it's proper place...

We ought to ever hold the Word of Life in trembling hands and not ignore the abundance of scripture that clearly speak of the duty of the chosen vessels of God to "yield", "reckon", "submit", "fear", "tremble", "strive", "work", "be careful", "take heed", "beware", "maintain", "abide" and the like...

Remember, it was Jesus who warned His students to "fear Him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell"...

And so long as we maintain such a sane, healthy, sober and faithful fear of God - we are surely securely upheld by the arm of the LORD:

*******************************

For as the heavens are high above the earth,
So great is His mercy toward **those who fear Him;**

As far as the east is from the west,
So far has He removed our transgressions from **us.**

As a father pities his children,
So the Lord pities **those who fear Him.**

For He knows our frame;
He remembers that we are dust.

As for man, his days are like grass;
As a flower of the field, so he flourishes.

For the wind passes over it, and it is gone,
And its place remembers it no more.

But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting
**On those who fear Him,**
And His righteousness to children’s children,

**To such as keep His covenant,**
**And to those who remember His commandments to do them.**

~ Psalm 103:11-18


_________________
~ Forrest

 2016/10/11 11:46Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1861


 Re:

if it is by faith we hold fast ,then the question is what is faith ?

is it a product of natural carnal man will ,or is it a grace in its self that is part of his divine nature born in us ,the faith of the son of god ..

 2016/10/11 15:21Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1977


 Re: everlasting covenant




Jeremiah 32:36-42

And now therefore thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, concerning this city, of which ye say, It shall be delivered into the hand of the king of Babylon by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence; Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in my anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again to this place, and I will cause them to dwell in safety. And they shall be my people, and I will be their God: And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them: And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me. Yes, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul. For thus saith the LORD; As I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.

Read verse 40 again, and see that it is 100% God's Grace. If it were any less than 100% His Grace it would cease to be Grace.

Verse 40

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

 2016/10/11 16:48Profile





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