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Marc_W
Member



Joined: 2005/6/3
Posts: 18
London Zone 3

 Watchmen or Witchhunter!

Hi guys, I'm new to this site. I have recently come accross a ....cough cough (self / so called watchmen)after listening to his, ermmmm... citical point of veiw I would really have to wonder where you draw the line? Watchmen or Witch Hunt? My own spirit is grieved by this man and his tearing down of others, doesn't the scripture say, if a works is not of God, it will come to nothing, yet if you come against that inwhich is of God, you maybe coming against God Himself?!

Danger Will Robinson...Danger!


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Marc Wheway

 2005/6/3 4:56Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re: Watchmen or Witchhunter!

Hi Marc,

I suppose I would have to know the context of which you speak and the individual involved to say for sure, however, there are a lot of factors to take into consideration when determining what God is saying and what He is not. I have often said that the Word of God is the Sword of the Spirit and it is not a machete. It must be weilded by the Holy Spirit or there will be serious trouble. This is why it is utterly important that all ministers know [i]what manor of spirit they are of[/i].

On the flip side of that the 'hearer' needs to know what manor of spirit they are of also. Sometimes God is speaking to the hearer and they are in rebellion and will not accept the teaching. It could be that the hard heartedness of the person will not allow the word to take root and bear fruit.

The other possibility is that both the speaker and the hearer know not what [i]manor of spirit they are of[/i]. To each a greater or lesser degree. Scripture tells us that "He that winneth souls is wise." The wisdom employed will be justified by her children (as it were). If souls are truly being won their is wisdom being used- if not there will not be. This is more about being sensitive to the Holy Spirit than anything else. Our words should always be with grace and seasoned with salt. Many massages and web sites and even churches look more like cults than the Kingdom. The people look all crazy as though they are under some sort of spell or something. You then read through the doctrinal statements and go, wheeeew! Witchhunt indeed!

If the church you attend does not minister grace to the hearers pack you stuff and roll down the street with the direction of the Holy Ghost. Give place to those people, no not one hour! They will kill you with their graceless message and cause you to turn bitter towards God. Always daggling the carrot just out of reach. Never a moments rest because everyone is made to feel they don't do anything right or enough. Flee such a place like the plague! Stand fast in the liberty with which Christ has made you free and be NOT entangled again with ANY kind of yoke of bondage. I believe there would be less sin in the body today if ministers would seek the face of God before they preach until they know EXACTLY what God is saying to their hearers. And if I might so say- you can actually overdose on 'hard' preaching. You can listen and listen until you are numb from the beating you have taken. Give yourself a rest for God's sake and let God minister grace unto you for a while.

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/6/3 9:19Profile
Marc_W
Member



Joined: 2005/6/3
Posts: 18
London Zone 3

 Re:

Hi Robert, thanks for the reply, I doubt you know this bloke, he's an Aussie and I never sat under him, just copped one of his group emails somehow.

I agree that we have to test the spirits but don't agree that you go looking to slander others that are doing all they know how to do with a true heart. Sure there are planty of wacko's out there proclaiming Jesus is Lord, but the bible clearly warns us of them too. My point again is that calling yourself a watchmen isn't going on a witchhunt! I think Saul / later Paul was a pretty good example of that!

Isn't it better to pray for those in error, rather than drag them thru the mud often using the media as a tool to do so!


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Marc Wheway

 2005/6/3 10:24Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Unfinished business

Ah, the unfinished thought...

Once again Robert, thank you for bringing forth the issue and something needed. This brought back something lingering and maybe it is in conviction that it get's supressed contrary to what I might like to think...

For all that was just made mention in the PDL thread nearby, something that I think came out of the Ravenhill interview, was a point where he was discussing some past saint and his instant response to hearing of men that were off on the wrong line of things, pastors, teachers, whatever... "[i]Oh, we must pray for him[/i]"

I don't do it as I ought, glad you pointed this out, even if it was unintentional... Can still hear the refrains about the issues brought forth about Billy Graham recently....

"Pray for the man!"

I need to repent of this and do so now


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Mike Balog

 2005/6/3 10:37Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Marc,

Quote:
Isn't it better to pray for those in error, rather than drag them thru the mud often using the media as a tool to do so!



I recall Paul telling the people it would be better for them to suffer wrong from one another than to take one another to court before unbelievers. I think it is important that the issues remain "in-house" as much as is possible. Many times the issues are a matter of non-essentials or excesses. Sometimes it is rife emotionalism and soulishness that is in question. Sometimes the speakers are deceived as much as they are deceiving, hence, deceiving and being deceived.

In any type of assembly there are one of three types of people:

1) Sheep
2) Goats
3) Wolves

The sheep are the born again who hear the voice of Christ and follow him. The goats are those who are what Finney would call 'awakened' or 'convicted' sinners- that have never really passed from death to life. By and large they are there in services or meetings, but they don't cause a lot of problems. The wolves are a different story. These are those that we must warn against even weeping, for they are the enemies of the cross of Christ. Scripture outlines their characteristics. As long as we stick with that outline and do not add out pet peeves to the list then we shall do well. Making that distinction is as tough as it gets.

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/6/3 10:40Profile









 Re: Watchmen or Witchhunter! re RobertW

Robert,

Quote:
In any type of assembly there are one of three types of people:
Sheep
Goats
Wolves


This is a useful insight, thank you.

Quote:
Always daggling the carrot just out of reach. Never a moments rest because everyone is made to feel they don't do anything right or enough.


I've been there, harrassed within and harrassed without. I really wanted to do my best for God, but it was preached that everything is a bargain. God does not come up with the blessing unless you show Him your service. Made to feel one's salvation depended on this, one came up with the goods... I mean, the works. It was a lot of lies, of course, because the gift of God is eternal life, [i]then[/i] we demonstrate our salvation through obedience to [i]Him[/i].

Quote:
if ministers would seek the face of God before they preach until they know EXACTLY what God is saying to their hearers


It would be a very good thing. It is a blessed place to be, hearing the exact word of God for 'Today'.

Quote:
And if I might so say- you can actually overdose on 'hard' preaching. You can listen and listen until you are numb from the beating you have taken. Give yourself a rest for God's sake and let God minister grace unto you for a while.


I can vouch for this too. The Lord began to turn back the tide of senseless activities, through the preaching of this, [b]Isaiah 40[/b]
1 [b]Comfort[/b] ye, [b]comfort[/b] ye [b]my people[/b], saith [b]your God[/b]. 2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that [b]her warfare [i]is[/i] accomplished[/b], that her iniquity is pardoned:

Later, through [b]2 Corinthians 1[/b]
the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and [b]the God of all comfort[/b]; 4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, [b]by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted [i]of God[/i][/b].

God wants to draw us closer and into His fold. It is not His will to wear us out with trying to find the Door but never quite 'making' it. (John 10)

 2005/6/3 14:24
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 I agree but disagree too

I don't know the situation you mention but have some thoughts on that line. In early church history they used to send letters of introduction for each other when they would travel from one region to another. The apostle Paul does mention thoughs who did his ministry wrong and is pretty condemning toward them. Normally it was in letter form from church to church or to individuals in the church through. Media has changed alot though. I have to agree with you on this one respect though, we as the church shouldn't air our dirty laundry out in the open ,but this minster should have gone to this one he blasted in public and confronted him , then take a witness ect.... you see where I'm headed. It's always best to follow the pattern Jesus' set down in the Word of God. I do believe true watchmen make mistakes in the way they approach matters too, that should make the rest of us fear with trembling and press all the more in for the wisdom of God to conduct ourselves in this world. Thx Brother Marc_w for the post, remember that it's all by grace that any of us stand. Blessings Bro. Daryl


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D.Miller

 2005/6/3 15:31Profile
Marc_W
Member



Joined: 2005/6/3
Posts: 18
London Zone 3

 Re: I agree but disagree too

Good feed back, thanks again guys! With this certain man its not a one off - he makes his ministry out of tearing down others! Thats all he does, he has a website full of those within the 5 fold openly bashing them. Sure there are those that need to be brought to the council of Gods people for correction, but to go on a witch-hunt with nothing better to do than conduct public hangings! I asked him 'who appointed you to do this' he wouldn't answer me, seems only he can ask the questions!


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Marc Wheway

 2005/6/3 19:00Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

There's a minister here in the U S that does the same thing. He especially attacks anything penecostal or anything that might be labeled as a supernatural moving of the Holy Spirit. Doesn't seem to matter what the manifestation is in this persons view it's false. These type of ministers I like to call tabloid preachers, they like to make false accusations not really knowing any of the facts.But for a time it puts them in the headlines and raises thier marketability and they usually go after money during these times promoting some special book or tape seris to prove thier point. My Mom always told me when I was growing up not to point my fingers at another since you'll always have 3 fingers point back. It's funny how I have never forgot that and I'm now 47 yrs old.


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D.Miller

 2005/6/3 19:14Profile
Marc_W
Member



Joined: 2005/6/3
Posts: 18
London Zone 3

 Re:

You just nailed it mate!!! Anything that above and outside their understanding, in their eyes is fake, false and fruitless. We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill!


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Marc Wheway

 2005/6/4 3:22Profile





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