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 Re: Todd

I believe evolution as the variation of species, but do not believe that we came about by evolution.
"The spherical shape of the earth is proven and observable fact beyond all question."
Prove it to me with scientific experiments that an average person is capable to perform and/or understand.
No doctored pictures, news from magazines, opinions of people like Michio Kaku, Steven Hawking etc. No pictures by a telescope that I've never even seen, No theories of big bang etc. please.
Who has seen the curvature, which civil engineer calculated with the curve? How does a gyroscope which keeps its rotation plain in the same angle regardless of curve keep planes in line? Why doesn't a gyroscope apparently turn as it should if the earth rotates? Why do not big mass objects on earth attract each other by gravity? Who saw or repeated the experiment by Cavendish regarding gravity? Is it conclusive? Explain how Foucault's pendulum works so I can understand, Why can the Chicago skyline be seen from the other side of the lake? Why don't I feel acceleration while travelling from the North toward the Equator? Why does it take for planes the same time to travel a distance West to East and East to West? Why doesn't Polaris ever move? Etc.... What about classic experiments like Michaelson-Morey, and Airy's failure?

You can write me an e-mail but here I thought we could talk about the Bible. Ever since I first read the Bible this verse was strange to me:
Revelation 6:14King James Version (KJV)

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

It could be symbolic or literal but why would God compare the huge universe with all the billions and billions lightyears and stars to a scroll? Same is with the tree: Why would God suggest that a tall tree can reach Heaven (anyway where is it? How many billions of light years away) and can be seen from all over the earth? At all why does the Bible suggest that up and down means anything? And there is the account of creation as I mentioned, how can it be harmonized with the official big bang and spinning dust?
And there is this verse:
Genesis 1:14
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Why didn't God say that he creates the stars and planets moons so we can go there if the earth overpopulates? No he said they were to show time to us which they do. There are many more such verses. Why wouldn't God tell it to us if it's not so?

 2016/9/12 20:09
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

I honestly can't tell if you are pulling my leg or not. Is this a test?

The bible was written by ancient men who had no idea about much of anything beyond what their senses could tell them. I am not saying they were not inspired in what they wrote but the purpose of the inspiration was not astrophysics, geology, mathematics, chemistry, physics, biology, optics, etc etc etc.

It seems you are trying to put clearly poetic language in the Bible on a par with advanced scientific analysis and observation.

(By the way- I can see Saturn and its rings with my fairly cheap telescope).


_________________
Todd

 2016/9/12 20:40Profile









 Re:

No, not at all, dear TMK it might be a test but I am not testing you, it is just difficult to speak openly in a mocking and hostile atmosphere. But here it is, and this is personal:
There are two reasons I am questioning all that is so evident for you and used to be for me. 1. High school physics class, where I learned that in science everything is (should be) testable, and should be proven by measurements and observations 2. An uncovered lie by a science related agency regarding a major proof of globe earth, and the consequent distrust on my part.
I along with many others have this idea that FE can be proven or disproven by direct experiments and observations by common people i.e. not using high cost apparatus and highly trained scientists.

Quote:

The bible was written by ancient men who had no idea about much of anything beyond what their senses could tell them. I am not saying they were not inspired in what they wrote but the purpose of the inspiration was not astrophysics, geology, mathematics, chemistry, physics, biology, optics, etc etc etc.


I think I am not the only Christian who believes that the Bible, especially the account of creation is significant, accurate and inspired for the purpose of telling us about our world. For example the order of creation can signify the central importance of the Earth which is I believe nowhere in the Bible is ever questioned, and the lesser importance of the heavenly bodies. True observation and true inspiration should give the same result.
"(By the way- I can see Saturn and its rings with my fairly cheap telescope)."
Funny, a stranger lady showed me a picture of Saturn on her cellphone last Saturday, she made it with her telescope. Too bad that I am not sure how far Saturn is...

 2016/9/12 23:48
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Next time there is an eclipse of the moon look carefully and you will see the shadow of the earth on the moon surface and it will show the size of the earth to the moon, and can be calculated by mathematics. The shadow of the earth on the moon is curved not by optics but by the earth coming in front of the sun' light being blocked by the earth and seeing that shadow on the moon. If you look at the moon through a strong telescope you can see that it is a globe and not flat.

I still don't understand your motive with this excursion of something proven to be not true, FE as you describe the Flat Earth lie as being something to prove not to be a lie. It is inconceivable that with all the proof we have that the earth is round and not flat that you perceive the proof as not being proof to you because you have no way of testing it.

What proof do you have that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?

I have been a pilot for 40 years and have well over 10,000 hrs of fling and have had friends that flew the SR71, highest flying naturally aspirated Jet in the World. I have seen pictures they took from 80,000 feet and heard their testimony of how beautiful the earth is in all its glory, a beautiful round globe hanging perfectly in space just as God intended it to be. A spinning gyro top toy or gyro instruments create their own gravity from the speed of its rotation, that is exactly how the earth keeps from wobbling as a toy does when it slows down, The earths speed is prefect and keeps everything in place, if God slows or stops the rotation the mountains and everything else will certainly move.

This is not in any way putting you down or accusing you in any way of any dark intentions, I just don't understand your stand on FE.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2016/9/13 3:24Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

I thought about posting yesterday, but thought the subject had closed. Anyway I will add some thoughts to consider concerning bible revelation.

As has already been said, the bible is not, and never was a science text book or even a detailed history book. It may include some science and history, but it's sole purpose is to reveal who God is and our relationship to Him. Primarily it is the revelation of salvation in Jesus Christ from Genesis to Revelation.

The reason we get into problems and come up with erroneous teaching like the view that was posted in the OP is because we have a wrong view of the bible and what it is and how it should be read. Now I definitely believe the bible is the 100% word of God, 100% God given and complete in all we need to know Him and His will for mankind this side of eternity (there will be more to know in eternity).

However if we interpret every word or phrase in the bible in a 'technical' or overly extreme literal way we will completely miss the meaning and end up making false conclusions. Don't misunderstand me, I do take the bible literally in the message it is giving, but I am talking about not taking into account the context of words and phrases and the main point being taught. So if we ignore the poetic or expressive language often used and take each word in a technically literal way, we end up with something the author never intended. For example, when the bible talks about 'the four corners of the earth', almost everyone knows this means 'the whole earth' and not literally that there are 4 corners! We even still use that phrase today. When God says He is 'a sun and a shield' do we take that as meaning He is the Sun or a big shield? I Know these are obvious, but we do the same thing with many other scriptures to try and 'prove' something that the bible itself is not saying.

Someone I know often used to say that 'words have history', meaning we need to understand the use of words as they were understood at the time. I might write a letter and in it say that something 'is a pain in the neck'. Someone reading that hundreds of years later who does not understand the phrase could interpret that literally and think I had some medical neck condition!

I am a biblical creationist, but I think some of the arguments used to support it use scripture in this wrong way. We are quick to grab hold of scriptures like Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the circle (or sphere) of the earth..." to show the bible teaches the earth is a sphere. However based on the context of the rest of the verse, it seems it could be saying God sits ABOVE the earth. It actually would not make sense that it was saying 'He sits on the earth and the people are as grasshoppers'. But we miss that meaning when we try and find 'proof texts' to back up a view, even when that view may be correct.



_________________
Dave

 2016/9/13 4:43Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Well spoken Dave.

Toszu it is not my intention to mock and I do apologize for that tone.

I just don't think it is fair to us, and especially to God, to give credence to false theories. To say that the earth is flat and is the center of the universe subtracts from God's glory. It is His creation after all, and it is important to accurately portray what he has created. Did you watch the video I posted? It is pretty mind blowing how glorious the creation is.


_________________
Todd

 2016/9/13 7:51Profile









 Re:

I don't see anything wrong with the topic. I question everything that l have been taught and have looked intently at the Apollo program and the Holocaust, to understand for myself whether they really happened or not.

I am not convinced about a FE however.

 2016/9/13 8:07
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Brenda- what was your conclusion regarding the Holocaust and th Apollo moon missions?


_________________
Todd

 2016/9/13 9:25Profile









 Re:

Aaaah new thread I think :)

 2016/9/13 9:38
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2265


 Re: Eratosthenes




Now & Then -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes

 2016/9/13 10:25Profile





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