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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Biblical cosmology

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 Re:

Thanks forrests for linking this video. I realize now that the scope of this topic way exceeds the possibilities of one thread, since outside of a biblical the FE has a cultural, a scientific, a psychological, a political. etc aspect, and we are not all experts so it would result in endless debate. Please allow me to narrow the topic to one question:
If we had the bible and our own simple observations and not have today's vast information from culture science etc. Would we come up with the idea that the earth is a sphere? The two Christians in the linked video state this and I strongly disagree, the way I see it the bible rather points to a flat earth than to a sphere.
Blessings,
Zsuzsanna

 2016/9/12 3:30









 Re:

Christinyou,
In the last year lot of people published the results of their own personal experiments on the internet, including amateur rockets, balloons, physics experiments and theories etc. that makes an average thinker question the one sided information that can be gained from modern textbooks, magazines etc. When I flew to Hungary this Spring I made pictures from the airplane the horizon was flat and rose to eye level. The windows of the airplane did not have distortion...
I ask the posters please stick to the bible text from now on to see whether it describes a flat or globe earth.
Thank you,
Zsuzsanna

 2016/9/12 3:43









 Re:

This is an old Athiests gotcha question. They usually ask it in context that the followers of Jesus are simple or uneducated and always were.

The thinking goes like this. If Jesus was God then why did he not tell mankind scientific truth concerning the cosmos? And why is it not recorded in the bible? I have never had a single one even try to rebut these versus when they see them and if it's good enough for athiest it should be enough here.

Jesus of course knew the earth was round and told us. He said in the "night" (a specific time at some point on the planet) and then mentions 3 different pairs of people doing things that happen at three different times on the earth, therefor the earth is round. I list them in their broadest terms.

In the field -8am til 4pm
At the mill - 4 pm til 12pm
In bed - 12pm til 8am

Luke- 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Marcmc

 2016/9/12 6:32
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3407
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
by Zsuzsanna
Please allow me to narrow the topic to one question:
If we had the bible and our own simple observations and not have today's vast information from culture science etc. Would we come up with the idea that the earth is a sphere? The two Christians in the linked video state this and I strongly disagree, the way I see it the bible rather points to a flat earth than to a sphere.


What?? You want to go back to 350ish BC? Because Aristotle found out and argued that the Earth was round about that time. Why did he do that? Because during a lunar eclipse, the earth's circular shadow was cast on the Moon. This was "his" simple observation not based on our vast knowledge and he didn't even have a Bible. Just a man and his eyes.

(edit: after i wrote this, I downloaded and listened to "
THE LIFE OF BROKENNESS BY WILLIAM MACDONALD" and then deleted the bottom half of post.

I left only the facts, Aristotle around 350BC with no Bible saw with his own eyes, as we see during every eclipse - the circular shadow of the earth.

God bless,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2016/9/12 9:12Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2127


 Re: Dear Sister Tozsu

It is with I hope a certain amount of fear and trembling and contriteness of my own self I offer this. But please good lady go to the website of those who made this film and spend some time there going over things they offer and advocate. That's all. You have made good posts and I have benefitted from them. So thank you for that.


_________________
David Winter

 2016/9/12 9:44Profile









 Re: Biblical cosmology

why?....why?

(I write in love, PLEASE don't mistake the tenor of my response, I BEG YOU)

you quoted Paul, so will I, then I will let Ian Paisley
speak for me.

" Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them."
Acts 20:28-30 (ESV)


"Fundamentalism Versus Apostasy" Ian Paisley
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=6863

be not cross with me, please, in Jesus love, neil

 2016/9/12 11:10









 Re:

I conclude that most of the readers find the idea of FE or geocentricity so absurd that they are not even willing to look at the scriptures.
Here is an article from ligonier ministries that dares to tackles this topic:
"Martin Luther and John Calvin believed geocentrism to be a true description of God’s creation."
http://www.ligonier.org/blog/luther-calvin-and-copernicus-reformed-approach-science-and-scripture/
docs, the Catholics believe that Jesus Christ the son of God died on the cross to bring us salvation. Should I not believe this idea because they are Catholics and worship Mary?
marc, According to current theories there are time zones in FE.
Lysa, I wanted to discuss the Bible not Aristotle.
Neil, Do you think that this idea is dangerous? It wasn't in the early church.

Thanks all the contributions they are good sources of information and have a humbling effect.

One more question:
How do you explain that God created the light and earth before He created the Sun and Moon while main stream science says that the earth came about from spinning dust in space? That would mean the Earth was always spinning and orbiting around the sun. Maybe when God created the Sun He also set the Earth in motion and on orbit?

God bless you.
Zsuzsanna


 2016/9/12 11:57









 Re: Lysa

What would Aristotle do with this kind of Lunar eclipse? He did not know about the supposed refraction.
http://abc7ny.com/science/tonights-lunar-eclipse-is-so-unique-its-impossible/340212/

 2016/9/12 12:35
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2127


 Re: Issues abound

From the film,

- There are no stars larger than earth

- The sun is not really ninety three million miles away

- The firmanent is really solid

- The heavenly bodies move and not the earth

/docs, the Catholics believe that Jesus Christ the son of God died on the cross to bring us salvation. Should I not believe this idea because they are Catholics and worship Mary?/

If the people who produced this film (worldslastchance) on a flat earth are the same people who maintain the website worldslastchance.com then there are issues. If they are not the same issues then I will be corrected. But if they are then they are anti-trinitarian and have a film denouncing the Trinity. Plus other unorthodox beliefs.

Plus under the articles section there is a article that is anti-semitic to its core and I say that with a great deal of trepidation because of the recent controversies and threads on SI relating to the Jewish people and Israel. I will not even go into the article. The air of unity on SI has been so exceedingly precious I dare not risk upsetting it. But perhaps you haven't perused their entire website or their beliefs and were just attracted to the article about the earth being flat. I'm done that before on websites. That is okay if you did but I would urge you to look around a bit on that website. I'm not trying to set myself up as better than you or anyone and I'm not comfortable saying what I have. No offense in any way is intended towards you. I believe the best of you and remember your many worthwhile contributions to SI.

"Doc"


_________________
David Winter

 2016/9/12 12:47Profile









 Re:

Thanks docs, I hoped to have a discussion about the Bible verses, the creation and biblical cosmology. We do not have to agree with one video, but may discuss the scriptures regarding those questions. I do not agree with the end time views of that video. There are lots of issues with the Catholics also but they got that one thing right...

 2016/9/12 12:59





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