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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Why?

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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707


Lysa wrote:

Quote: """I'm not arguing for a particular endtime belief but I would logically like to ask about the "authority of the believer."

The Apostles all had tongues of fire rest upon them, did miracles in the name of Jesus, Peter's shadow healed people and yet every single one of them BUT John died a violent death. How do you explain the authority of those believers?

Nero literally burned to death Christians and left them burning to light Rome up after the fire. How do you explain the authority of those believers?

How does one explain the authority of believers when Christian's were led to the coliseum for their deaths all to entertain the citizens of Romans?

Where is the authority of the believer when Christians have been skinned alive and had to watch their children and loved ones die unspeakable deaths before they were martyred?

I'm not upset and yelling, with tears in my eyes these are honest questions that I have.

Question 1. I believe they had authority but where was the authority of those believers when they suffered and were martyred?

Question 2. Why is our authority of the believer any different than theirs? Better question is, "Is ours any different?"

Question 3. Can anyone explain to me logically why those Christians were martyred and yet not one Christian (in America? because we all know outside America they are being martyred), why we in America will not die a violent death before Christ returns.

Anyone care to explain?"""

This is been a problem for me also for a long time. I have no answer for this question, but I do have a big lump in my heart and soul/mind between me and God, Why Lord Why?

Does this time of beheading, burned in oil, drowned, shot in front of family, rape of children, and on and on, does this give God glory, does He make it this way.

My finite mind cannot get around it pleasing God to suffer His Son to be absolutely ripped apart and killed. Is this what makes God happy. I know His ways are not my ways, but how can I wrap my mind around all the suffering and bloodshed in the plan of God?

Isaiah 53:10-12 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

I praise God for Jesus Christ who is now my life, but to get me there, I am not worth it. Love? Much more than I can contend with.

I guess the only thing I can rest on is: Romans 9:20-23 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

But even the honor vessels are slaughtered.

I wish I could answer Lysa. If the last thing I had on my mind was the pain of beheading or burning alive, what would be my first thought in resurrection?

Why? In Christ: Phillip


 2016/9/5 22:02Profile

 Re: Why?

Why = Adam


 2016/9/5 22:09

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707


Yes marc

God already knew this before he created Adam. Again; Why


 2016/9/5 22:12Profile


I have debated many athiests and your question is the first accusation against God they raise 100% of the time. Please understand that I know yours is not an accusation even though the content of your question is the same as theirs.

Because your a believer I can ask you to answer 2 questions for yourself over the next several weeks that on the surface appear innocuous but are very important.

1) How many plans did God have available before He purposed to do one?

2) Are male and female Adam in Heaven today?


 2016/9/5 23:16

 Re: Why NOT?

The Bible speaks of many who suffered on behalf on the gospel who were unwilling to abandon the precious faith entrusted to them. Consider the apostle Paul, who knew intimately what it was to write, “I bear on my body the marks of Jesus” (Galatians 6:17). Think of the stoning of Stephen and the heartache endured by those recorded in Hebrews 11. Furthermore, eleven of Jesus’s twelve disciples died a martyr’s death; not one of them anticipated how they would die when they came to him. If they had known where following Jesus would lead them, one wonders whether any of them would have started on the journey, for as they proved later, they were not particularly brave men.

And yet, faithfulness over the long run is the shining example of what faith is meant to be. The story of the gospel in China is only one recent example. During the Cultural Revolution, Mao Zedong burned the seminary libraries, expelled Christians from the country, and declared that the name of Jesus would never be pronounced on Chinese lips again. He tried to bury the Christian faith completely. Today, the Chinese church is the fastest growing church in the world.

The greatest of loves will never come cheaply. Unlike the Cheap grace we currently express in North America. The greatest of loves that you and I can ever experience is an intimate relationship with God, who has given everything for us. And yes, sometimes, it takes everything you’ve got to honor that love and it takes everything you’ve got to honor that trust.

 2016/9/6 19:58

Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2003
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Why?


We have been blessed in America to live in a nation that, up to now, allows free exercise of religion. We are not persecuted in the same way that other believers have been persecuted. But i agree with you. There is no guarantee that this will not happen. We sometimes forget history and the fragile nature of national identity. In my lifetime we could easily see real persecution in this nation. It is not outside the pale of reality to think that I could be called on to give my life for the sake of Christ before my natural life would end. I pray not, but it could happen.

I don't think this point has any eschatological bearing necessarily, except that we in the US might hope for events that allow us to avoid personal persecution and possibly martyrdom.

I just pray that we are ready in any case. We should be seeking to be as near to God as we can possibly be.


 2016/9/7 7:22Profile

Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 946
Johannesburg, South Africa


Hey Phillip,

You ask: "Question 1. I believe they had authority but where was the authority of those believers when they suffered and were martyred?

Question 2. Why is our authority of the believer any different than theirs? Better question is, "Is ours any different?"

In my understanding, believers authority is spiritual and corporate, as in the authority given to the church In Jesus Name to be His representatives, to preach the gospel with confirming signs, to establish His spiritual kingdom in the hearts of men and to execute church discipline among those who have confessed their faith in Him and submitted themselves to His Lordship, thereby also submitting themselves to the authority of elders etc.
We, as believers, have no authority over another human being or over any government or any other earthly institution.
As far as wordly persecution goes, we are led as lambs to the slaughter...but in hope of God's righteous judgement to come on our behalf. Vengeance is mine , says the Lord, I WILL repay!


 2016/9/7 8:28Profile

Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2046

 Re: Why? Ask Job!

Job 23

Then Job spoke again:

“My complaint today is still a bitter one,
and I try hard not to groan aloud.
If only I knew where to find God,
I would go to his court.
I would lay out my case
and present my arguments.
Then I would listen to his reply
and understand what he says to me.
Would he use his great power to argue with me?
No, he would give me a fair hearing.
Honest people can reason with him,
so I would be forever acquitted by my judge.
I go east, but he is not there.
I go west, but I cannot find him.
I do not see him in the north, for he is hidden.
I look to the south, but he is concealed.
“But he knows where I am going.
And when he tests me, I will come out as pure as gold.
For I have stayed on God’s paths;
I have followed his ways and not turned aside.
I have not departed from his commands,
but have treasured his words more than daily food.
But once he has made his decision, who can change his mind?
Whatever he wants to do, he does.
So he will do to me whatever he has planned.
He controls my destiny.
No wonder I am so terrified in his presence.
When I think of it, terror grips me.
God has made me sick at heart;
the Almighty has terrified me.
Darkness is all around me;
thick, impenetrable darkness is everywhere.

 2016/9/7 8:33Profile

Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5485


Quote: "I have debated many athiests and your question is the first accusation against God they raise 100% of the time. Please understand that I know yours is not an accusation even though the content of your question is the same as theirs."

The reason it is always brought up is that there is not a satisfactory answer. I am not blaming God for this, but there is no good answer. If we are honest we have to admit this and be brave enough to admit it to atheists or whoever.

As Tozer says, we don't need to go around apologizing for Him to fallen men.


 2016/9/7 10:26Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707


Todd, this stood out bright and clear. """ but there is no good answer."""

I guess that is why I keep searching for it, because I can't find it. I am sure God has the answer, and when He is ready He could answer "Why". I am sure it will be a perfect answer and it will flood our hearts with His perfection in Himself and Having put that perfection Jesus Christ, birthed in the believer that He has chosen to perfect. I believe that is our destiny and part of the answer. So I must wait for the finish and trust that His finish in me is what God intended for His Children from before the beginning of this earth. In Christ.

For now this is my faith, strength, wisdom, my all.

Ephesians 1:3-7 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

The reason for "WHY", I just had to see if there was anyone else who had the same questions in them, even knowing where the answer lies.

Thank you all for indulging my lack of faith, and a question that cannot be answered by any one but God.

Thank you Todd. If there is any more revelation from God, it is very much coveted. I am not apologizing to the fallen but to chosen of God in Christ Jesus, My Brothers and Sisters, may God richly bless you all.

In Christ: Phillip


 2016/9/7 18:14Profile

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